The Blue Jays Thread. - Page 11 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Caged Great · 05-09-2007, 08:15 AM

Even Maggie the Monkey would be an upgrade.

Caged Great · 05-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Actually, I think Godfrey would take over the GM spot for the short term before a more suitable replacement could be found.

As for the Coaching position, allow brantley to take over both batting and head coach for a few days before finding a permanent replacement.

Flickered Flame · 05-09-2007, 08:20 AM

Okay, I am not a Jays fan so I don't follow the Jays as closely as some on this board but is there already talk (rumors) that both will be let go if this slide continues?

I_H8_Crawford · 05-09-2007, 08:58 AM

Gibbons will get the axe before JP.
Gibbons is JPs last excuse.

Its too bad, this team had some potential. Now they are out of it though.

RedHot25 · 05-09-2007, 09:28 AM

Godfrey as the GM? Even as a fill in - Huh?

Anyways, can't say that I have heard any rumblings yet - but I guess it wouldn't surprise me.

I agree, though, if there is any "truth" to such rumours Gibbons would be the one to go (whether you agree or disagree with that).

CaramonLS · 05-09-2007, 09:46 AM

The manager position in baseball probably has to be one of the most overrated, overhyped things in all of pro sports. However, a great manager can put you over the top - except those are very very rare in baseball, most fall into the catigory of average.

Compare them to head coaches in any other pro sport... there is no comparison in the relative impact they have on the game. Hell, Brad Arnsberg has more impact by telling the pitchers what to throw than Gibbons.

The manager probably affects ~ 5-10 wins per year, and that is based on 1) roster construction, 2) Bullpen usage, 3) Motivation. To be quite honest though, I'd probably let half the people on CP do #1 & #2, because the basic philosophy isn't at all complicated.

That only leaves #3, can Gibbons motivate the players? Who knows. They certainly aren't playing well right now, but that could easily be attributed to a variety of other factors. When I think of Motivation, I always think of Cito Gaston, probably one of the best managers who could do it, and he could really affect the outcome of a game. He gave the Jays a reputation and a swagger. Is Gibbons Cito? No, of course not.

But is he to blame for this streak? No, he isn't the one tossing 85 MPH slop over the plate for Boston hitters to crush out of the park.

The players might grip their sticks a little tighter for the next 10 games, go on a bit of a run, but it wont really change anything. Especially if they decide to put Whitt as the manager, who can't actually fill out a lineup card or manage the bullpen with any sort of sense.

JayP · 05-09-2007, 05:57 PM

Anyone else watching the Sox/Jays game right now?

Pretty disgusting the amount of borderline calls Dice-K gets. Anything even close to the strike zone is a strike. There's a huge discrepancy between the strike zones given to Ohka and Matsuzaka.

Regardless, the Jays (Ohka especially) are pathetic again...

SportsJunky · 05-09-2007, 06:32 PM

Yep I agree. Dice seems to be getting a little more leeway on his pitches tonight. Toronto is seriously slumping now and they need a shakeup in a bad way.

Roy Keane · 05-09-2007, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Ok so who should they have got instead of Burnett to be there #2 starter?
Who should they have got instead of Ryan to be their closer?

And should they have let VW walk?

I don't disagree that JP has made mistakes but these 3 guys are not why the Jays are losing (apart from Ryan being injured, last year he was light's out)

They should have had patience and waited another year for a better crop of free agent pitchers to be available. As for Wells, they should have traded him last year for some good, cheap young talent. Toronto will never be able to compete with NY and Boston financially and have to be smart with their money. Burnett has been a major disappointment, keep in mind that when he signed the fat contract his lifetime record was 54 wins, 55 losses and he had been kicked out of the Marlins clubhouse right before the season ended. $130 million for an outfielder is a disgusting number when you look at the Jay's wafer thin pitching staff. Toronto will never be more than a perennial third place team in that division until they change their philosophy.

JayP · 05-10-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Keane

They should have had patience and waited another year for a better crop of free agent pitchers to be available.

Well there was a lot worse crop of pitching free agents this summer (Lilly and Meche being the two comparables to Burnett) If we didn't sign Burnett like you suggested, the Jays would be sitting with the exact same rotation right now except for Burnett (who's one of the two starters the Jays have that can produce a great game on a somewhat regular basis).

Roy Keane · 05-10-2007, 06:08 AM

Stop looking at it from year to year. Look at the big picture. The Jays have had no shot at legitmately winning the division or challenging for a wild card spot for almost ten years. You're telling me that the $55 million given to Burnett couldn't have been invested better in things like organizational depth and scouting?

Caged Great · 05-10-2007, 06:55 AM

Hopefully Burnett opts out after the season....

CaramonLS · 05-10-2007, 09:19 AM

Gil Meche is funny.

I think this is the only time in recorded history where a player with absolutely no track record of success gets paid, and then lives up to the potential in him.

Of course, I'd like to see it over the course of a season, but it is quite amusing to see.

flambers · 05-10-2007, 01:52 PM

TSN has posted a story stating BJ Ryan is gone for the season with Tommy John Surgery..... Ouch that is a huge loss.

Flickered Flame · 05-10-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

TSN has posted a story stating BJ Ryan is gone for the season with Tommy John Surgery..... Ouch that is a huge loss.

Yep. Not a huge surprise imo, I had heard this when he first went down with the injury. Nothing is going right for the Jays.

http://tsn.ca/mlb/news_story/?ID=207272&hubname=

Roy Keane · 05-10-2007, 04:56 PM

They are getting what they deserve, they backed the Brinks truck up to BJ Ryan's backyard after one good season on a great Chicago team. They should have invested more in developing their prospects and scouting cheap overseas players in Japan and Cuba.

JP keeps going for the grand slam with all his big name signings, Frank Thomas is a perfect example. Does anyone here see Billy Beane giving Frank Thomas $18 million? No, instead he drafts a guy like Nick Swisher, pays him peanuts, and gets a far better player.

CaramonLS · 05-10-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Keane

They are getting what they deserve, they backed the Brinks truck up to BJ Ryan's backyard after one good season on a great Chicago team. .

BJ played on a bad Baltimore team...

Flickered Flame · 05-10-2007, 05:15 PM

The difference is Beane cannot sign anyone to that kind of money. Rogers has a bigger and deeper pocket book which allows JP to throw more money around.

And in case you haven't noticed, the A's are far from perfect. They cannot score any runs, don't like at todays score

, all they can do is pitch, pitch, and pitch some more.

Roy Keane · 05-10-2007, 05:17 PM

Thirty six saves one year with Baltimore and you're telling me he's worth $47 million? His previous career high to that point had been 3. The most innings he had ever pitched in one year had been 87.2

$47 million? Damn the Marlins almost won the World Series last year with total payroll less than half that. Very bad management. Toronto has no business giving out contracts worth $130 million to guys like Vernon Wells it's only a slight production dropoff to get a journeyman for less than $6 million a season. Until they rethink their entire franchise building strategy and realize that the only way to be successful consistently is building through the draft and complementing a successful young core team is by signing cheap free agents, and only when necessary, the Toronto Blue Jays are destined to finish no higher than third in their division.

Roy Keane · 05-10-2007, 05:19 PM

Flickered Flame, who has made the playoffs the most consistently in the past fifteen years in the AL? Before you say New York Yankees, you might want to look it up and you'll be surprised. No team has been more successful on such a limited payroll than Oakland. If Billy Beane was given JP's chequebook the results would be scary, because he realizes that in order to build a successful franchise you have to be willing to be patient.