[News] The Athletic releases list of worst contracts (we’re #1!)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Hockey Writers also posted an article yesterday how the Flames are one of the worst positioned teams with respect to the cap due to Huberdeau deal and not liking the Bahl deal. But guess which team is in one of the best positions…… blows my mind

Goodness that site needs some design help.
And I think that article is simply leveraging the same work by the Athletic. Unless you see a different one (again hard to find because that site is a mess).

It's funny seeing these two headlines stacked on top of each other in the Flames section:

"Jonathan Huberdeau’s Contract Isn’t Hurting the Flames"
"Flames One of Worst Positioned Cap Teams Based on New Model"

Tickles me though I get it. Both things can be true. Huberdeau's contract IS one of the worst in the league but it is not currently really hurting the Flames.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Goodness that site needs some design help.
And I think that article is simply leveraging the same work by the Athletic. Unless you see a different one (again hard to find because that site is a mess).

It's funny seeing these two headlines stacked on top of each other in the Flames section:

"Jonathan Huberdeau’s Contract Isn’t Hurting the Flames"
"Flames One of Worst Positioned Cap Teams Based on New Model"

Tickles me though I get it. Both things can be true. Huberdeau's contract IS one of the worst in the league but it is not currently really hurting the Flames.

You are correct, think they are leveraging off of Dom’s model. The HW really needs to get some people writing that know something about the game. How can anyone in their right mind that knows anything about the cap or can identify good hockey players say the Oilers are in one of the best cap positions in the league?

[HighLifeMan]

The Kevin Bahl contract criticism's are hilarious to me.

He's a 25 year old defensive defensemen who kills penalties, plays against top lines, and puts in 20 minutes a night, yet somehow that contract (which will be under 5% of the cap for the majority of it's duration) will somehow limit us significantly moving forward?

What do these "writers" expect middle pairing defensemen to make moving forward on a projected cap ceiling of 113.5M in just three years?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not sure how you draw any conclusions about how the rest of the NHL feels about him. If anything it could be another example of the gap between how these models perceive these types of players (big, mobile, but largely defensive blueliners) v. how they are valued by NHL teams

Maybe you missed it but the word "may" in my post is key Jiri. The media and advanced stats guys certainly haven't love the signing and given that, it's not a stretch to think that some teams may not view him as highly as the Flames. I personally feel the deal is a little on the high side but not a big deal given the Flames current cap situation. He's solid if unspectacular and guys like that typically don't generate a lot of hype especially in a small market and had he played last season in a market like Toronto, Florida, or Dallas I'm sure he may have more notoriety. His age and size is definitely a plus which is why I'm not too worried about the contract.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Maybe you missed it but the word "may" in my post is key Jiri. The media and advanced stats guys certainly haven't love the signing and given that, it's not a stretch to think that some teams may not view him as highly as the Flames. I personally feel the deal is a little on the high side but not a big deal given the Flames current cap situation. He's solid if unspectacular and guys like that typically don't get a lot of hype especially in a small market and had he played last season in a market like Toronto or Dallas I'm sure he may have more notoriety. His age and size is definitely a plus which is why I'm not too worried about the contract.

I don't find Bahl particularly compelling. I'm not sure exactly how good a defender he is, and he and Andersson were pretty bad as a PK tandem for the majority of the year.

He may not earn his contract but there's still a chance he improves, and we get him for all his best years. If he's a mediocre guy you can just walk him at the end of his deal.

Sent from my SM-S931W using Tapatalk

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Maybe you missed it but the word "may" in my post is key Jiri. The media and advanced stats guys certainly haven't love the signing and given that, it's not a stretch to think that some teams may not view him as highly as the Flames. I personally feel the deal is a little on the high side but not a big deal given the Flames current cap situation. He's solid if unspectacular and guys like that typically don't generate a lot of hype especially in a small market and had he played last season in a market like Toronto, Florida, or Dallas I'm sure he may have more notoriety. His age and size is definitely a plus which is why I'm not too worried about the contract.

The article provides some evidence that analytical types may not like the deal
I don’t see what information you were drawing from to suggest teams may feel the same. And yes I know you said “may” but you also said “pretty evident”
I guess I don’t understand the basis for that

[Pellanor]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

That is what I am trying to debate.

They tried to make a stats based argument for worst contracts, but then added in a subjective layer so that they create a cap compliant team. It doesn't make sense.

This is what Down Goes Brown does. He tries to make lineups with weird restrictions.Things like, what's the best top line you can build from a team's history without repeating any initials (You couldn't include both Miikka Kiprusoff and Al MacInnis on the Flames line because of the shared M).


In this case he took the contract grades that another writer gave out and tried to get as many of the worst of them on the same cap compliant team. Two different authors, one doing stats, the other silly lineup games.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Pellanor

This is what Down Goes Brown does. He tries to make lineups with weird restrictions.Things like, what's the best top line you can build from a team's history without repeating any initials (You couldn't include both Miikka Kiprusoff and Al MacInnis on the Flames line because of the shared M).


In this case he took the contract grades that another writer gave out and tried to get as many of the worst of them on the same cap compliant team. Two different authors, one doing stats, the other silly lineup games.

come on down Zarley Zalapski

[Strange Brew]

The Flames couldn't score at all last year, 29th in the league. Yet they got to 96 points. Guys like Bahl were a big part of that so I am fine with the contract.

It will be interesting though, Conroy has made some medium sized bets on a few players (Sharangovich, Coronato, Bahl) and we'll get to grade the results. Every one of these players had a limited track record before playing well the year before they signed their deals.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Hockey Writers also posted an article yesterday how the Flames are one of the worst positioned teams with respect to the cap due to Huberdeau deal and not liking the Bahl deal. But guess which team is in one of the best positions…… blows my mind

Oiler fanboy sites

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The article provides some evidence that analytical types may not like the deal
I don’t see what information you were drawing from to suggest teams may feel the same. And yes I know you said “may” but you also said “pretty evident”
I guess I don’t understand the basis for that

How confident are you that teams would be interested in trading for Bahl right now with his contract?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How confident are you that teams would be interested in trading for Bahl right now with his contract?

Not sure.
But NHL teams and GMs continue to value size and reach, particularly with dmen, more than fans, and the blogosphere. You saw that in the last draft where there were a pile of big dman taken. And if you are mobile - even better.

So i think there would be a market for him. How much of a return? I don't know.

I don't think the contract is a steal at all. But if he's over paid, I think it's probably at most by <1M.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Not sure.
But NHL teams and GMs continue to value size and reach, particularly with dmen, more than fans, and the blogosphere. You saw that in the last draft where there were a pile of big dman taken. And if you are mobile - even better.

So i think there would be a market for him. How much of a return? I don't know.

I don't think the contract is a steal at all. But if he's over paid, I think it's probably at most by <1M.

Yeah I'm sure teams like the Sharks or Hawks could take him on but how many non-taking teams can take on what may be a 4/5 defenseman on their roster making $5.3 million annually for the next 6 years? I think it's a small number. Regardless it's a number the Flames can manage and that's all that really matters.

[Hackey]

Bahl at least feels like a guy who could be making an impact when the team is competitive. Size definitely helps in the playoffs as well. Sharangovich feels like wasted money to me.

[kehatch]

Bahl is in the top 75 cap hit for D. I don't think it is terrible, but its far from value. Sharongovich could end up as a bad contract as well. Farabee is another, though the term is shorter.

Hopefully all three take a step forward and are worth their contract in the future.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Sharangovich feels like wasted money to me.

If he continues his trend of good year/bad year we should be in store for an uptick in production this season.

[Bonded]

I wouldn’t be too worried about getting rid of Bahl. 5.3 million is #4/5 dman money now. Top pairing guys are going to be worth 10+ and #3 guys like Andersson are going to be worth 8ish. Some GM with a small dcore will get beat in the playoffs and trade for him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I wouldn’t be too worried about getting rid of Bahl. 5.3 million is #4/5 dman money now. Top pairing guys are going to be worth 10+ and #3 guys like Andersson are going to be worth 8ish. Some GM with a small dcore will get beat in the playoffs and trade for him.

Possibly but also possible we see more teams that are top heavy on spending like the Oilers, Leafs, Avs, Lighting spending all the money on skill players. I kind of think that may be the way to go vs paying more for depth guys.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I wouldn’t be too worried about getting rid of Bahl. 5.3 million is #4/5 dman money now. Top pairing guys are going to be worth 10+ and #3 guys like Andersson are going to be worth 8ish. Some GM with a small dcore will get beat in the playoffs and trade for him.

That isn't true. Most top teams aren't paying their number 4 that let alone their number 5. That salary would make him a well paid number 3 on most teams. That will change a bit as players get extended. But its a lot of money on a player with a career high 20 points.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by kehatch

That isn't true. Most top teams aren't paying their number 4 that let alone their number 5. That salary would make him a well paid number 3 on most teams. That will change a bit as players get extended. But its a lot of money on a player with a career high 20 points.

They are and will continue to as the cap continues to rise. Samberg and Fehervary signed for more than Bahl and they are 20 point dman. Gavrikov signed for 7 million and his career high is 30 points. Zadorov signed for a higher % than Bahl as well. The quality of their defensive game may vary but the going rate for a #4/5 is increasing.