2025 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[Inferno]

[Roof-Daddy]

It continues to amaze me how over rated Vlad is among what seems like a large portion of Jays fans. It's like they haven't been watching the last 6 years of his MLB career. You reserve those type of contracts for players you can actually build a team around, not a guy who plays a non premium position (and doesn't play it well either), has negative value as a baserunner, and is a very inconsistent hitter who seems easy to fool and struggles to make adjustments.

Not only that but he's got red flags galore with his body type and how he will age going forward.

[Finger Cookin]

Who cares what you'd get for him at this point, whether he's dealt now or at the deadline? The org will either misvalue the return and get dog #### back. Or if they somehow get great players in return who are miraculously under team control for a few seasons, they'll #### up the valuations of those players and go through this stupid cycle all over again.

Put a $1 per ticket Guerrero surcharge on every ticket. Cancel a few bobblehead nights. Raise your beer prices $0.25 per serving.Boom, gap closed. Such nickel and dime BS from ownership with supposedly deep pockets. Pony up to play in the big leagues or move the team to Sacramento.


"The type of player you build around"... the Jays are apparently unable to attract that kind of player anyway. And if they miraculously draft one, they won't pay them enough to keep them long enough to build anything anyway. So what are they even doing?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Who cares what you'd get for him at this point, whether he's dealt now or at the deadline? The org will either misvalue the return and get dog #### back. Or if they somehow get great players in return who are miraculously under team control for a few seasons, they'll #### up the valuations of those players and go through this stupid cycle all over again.

Put a $1 per ticket Guerrero surcharge on every ticket. Cancel a few bobblehead nights. Raise your beer prices $0.25 per serving.Boom, gap closed. Such nickel and dime BS from ownership with supposedly deep pockets. Pony up to play in the big leagues or move the team to Sacramento.

I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but the problem is locking someone up with risks long term, is we'll be stuck with a terrible contract for years, handcuffing the team. Springer on a shorter term has been terrible for years as he's aged. He's locked up at a shorter term and less salary but it already feels like a lifetime. For Vlad to say he's being generous for offering 14 years, is disingenuous. The guy should get no more than 7, maybe 8 years at a higher amount. But to offer him a high salary and term with his flags? Terrible.

[Jason14h]

Do bad salaries handcuff the Jays though ? They are spending the 5th most in MLB and tried to spend more

Finding players to take the $ is actually the bigger issue

If Vlad only plays at a 3 WAR guy each season for the next 8-9 years and then declines does the prevent them from building. A competitive team .

Rogers seems to be willing to spend with the big boys .

[flambers]

I would think, a key issue attracting players last off season, was Vladdy's contract situation,

I do agree, Jays typically will spend the money and bad contracts should not be an issue (i.e. they have Springers contract, lots of money for a 4th outfielder type of guy, at this stage in his career)

One of the UFAs, made that specific comment, when he signed elsewhere

Next off season is likely another obstacle with Bo and Vladdy both leaving (IMO).

When your franchise player leaves, how do they attract others?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by flambers

When your franchise player leaves, how do they attract others?

You don't. You rebuild, draft and develop new stars.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You don't. You rebuild, draft and develop new stars.

Agreed, just don't think that's the direction the Jays will go with.

[KelVarnsen]

Manoah throws off mound for the first time since TJ surgery. Swason MRI shows no damage.

https://www.tsn.ca/mlb/alek-manoah-t...gery-1.2270854

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by jayswin

You don't. You rebuild, draft and develop new stars.

Who will leave to play elsewhere as soon as they can as they get nickled and dimed by the club.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Who will leave to play elsewhere as soon as they can as they get nickled and dimed by the club.

Nah, if they're an actual legit star the Jays wouldn't dick around. They've been watching Vlad fumble on the base paths, fumble playing 1B, be hot and cold at the plate, struggle with his weight, make stupid mistake after stupid mistake, put up anywhere from 6 war to 1 war seasons and decided not to give him 600 million dollars until he's 40 years old.

Can't really blame them for that. Sheeeeiiit, if he'd have taken the Jays rumored offer it would have been a record deal for a first baseman, so clearly the Jays aren't being stingy or unfair, it's just Vlad has an over inflated value of himself. Unless he puts up a season like Soto had last year he's going to find out the hard way when he hits the open market.

[Andrew]

Cleveland signed ramirez
Judge signed with NYy eventually
Eventually tampa signed Franco

It can be done it might take some time.

Guy is still young I don't buy overrated. Inconsistent yes but he is a premier bat in prime

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Nah, if they're an actual legit star the Jays wouldn't dick around. They've been watching Vlad fumble on the base paths, fumble playing 1B, be hot and cold at the plate, struggle with his weight, make stupid mistake after stupid mistake, put up anywhere from 6 war to 1 war seasons and decided not to give him 600 million dollars until he's 40 years old.

Can't really blame them for that. Sheeeeiiit, if he'd have taken the Jays rumored offer it would have been a record deal for a first baseman, so clearly the Jays aren't being stingy or unfair, it's just Vlad has an over inflated value of himself. Unless he puts up a season like Soto had last year he's going to find out the hard way when he hits the open market.

He's a legit star. Can Vlad be overrated when he's 7th in offensive WAR and is a gold glover?

They're going to lose this home grown talent for 3 million per year?

Who would want to play here?

You guys are hard on him because you watch him everyday and are more aware of his boneheaded plays, which happens to everyone. Judge missing the catch in the world series.

[Roof-Daddy]

Judge is 1st on total WAR since 2021 32.5. Vlad is 25th with half that. Those two aren't comparable in any way that i can see. Soto is 2nd and Ohtani 3rd.

Vlad over rates himself if he thinks he deserves 585 million. It's not the Jays fault he isn't signed, it's his fault because as I said, he over rates himself.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Judge is 1st on total WAR since 2021 32.5. Vlad is 25th with half that. Those two aren't comparable in any way that i can see. Soto is 2nd and Ohtani 3rd.

Vlad over rates himself if he thinks he deserves 585 million. It's not the Jays fault he isn't signed, it's his fault because as I said, he over rates himself.

I disagree with you on some points. Yes maybe not upper level for consistency.

The stats ignore that guerrro is lot younger than judge and ohtani. As well my point that he is inconsistent. Young players are inconsistent. When he is on top player in league not many have that upside. Some adjustment for consistency is not unheard of. The prices are rising everywhere not just in baseball.

Maybe short term is a solution?

He might not be 500 mil but price has gone up. What is the market? What is the premium to stay in Toronto? It's not a destination. Jays obviously agree he is worth 450.

The team is better with him we won't get a better player.

[flambers]

With Vladdy, the other factor is attracting other key players

Without Vladdy, no chance in my view

Correct choice, if he leaves is to rebuild....

[browna]

Francis not the greatest spring. I really think that legit historical heater he had at the end of the season last year was a once in a lifetime thing, and he will never get out from under, or live up to, the shadow of those couple weeks.

Just hope he can keep up the confidence to be a average or better starter this year in the rotation.

[Andrew]

He was good bullpen year before. What's the floor
I think he will be ok. Maybe 4.0 era

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by browna

Francis not the greatest spring. I really think that legit historical heater he had at the end of the season last year was a once in a lifetime thing, and he will never get out from under, or live up to, the shadow of those couple weeks.

Just hope he can keep up the confidence to be a average or better starter this year in the rotation.

Yeah. I mean, it's pretty unlikely that he suddenly became Nolan Ryan 2.0 at age 28. But if he can be a quality mid-rotation starter that doesn't coat $15MM/year that's a big win.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Francis was also terrible at the beginning of last season. Hoping it's just him ramping up.