Making the playoffs or keeping our top-10 first round pick 2025?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Without a doubt, you need real strength and depth down the middle if you expect to be a contender, and that's one area where this team needs to improve- especially in regards to our pipeline. We need centers for the future.

And they ain't signing in a place like Calgary even if they make it to free agency, so if not the draft then you'd have to hope for one of the rare trade opportunities for one. From there you need to have what the trading team wants AND beat out the other teams interested AND likely hope that the player will waive a current NTC, AND if they're close to free agency you have to hope they re-sign with you rather than walking.

Spoiler alert: Gotta get some bottom 5 finishes to have a chance at building this Flames team into a contender.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by jayswin

And they ain't signing in a place like Calgary even if they make it to free agency, so if not the draft then you'd have to hope for one of the rare trade opportunities for one. From there you need to have what the trading team wants AND beat out the other teams interested AND likely hope that the player will waive a current NTC, AND if they're close to free agency you have to hope they re-sign with you rather than walking.

Spoiler alert: Gotta get some bottom 5 finishes to have a chance at building this Flames team into a contender.

Let the Eichel trade be an example. Buffalo the Edmonton of the east a undesirable location took a guy that’s from the area over what we could offer knowing Tkachuk would walk.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Fan69

Both columbus and utah have a pile of assets and a couple of daft trades could really turn things around for them. Especially if the trade was something like us sending Anderson. It would probably hurt our short term and help theirs. Im happy even at ten. Maybe grab Obrian, or frondel and have a chance at the lottery.

The word you are looking for is deft.
I hope they don’t make any daft trades.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Without a doubt, you need real strength and depth down the middle if you expect to be a contender, and that's one area where this team needs to improve- especially in regards to our pipeline. We need centers for the future.

Crazy part is it used to be a strength not too long ago with Lindholm, Backlund, Monahan

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Ok so you pretty much agree with me minus calling that a core group, but I guess it is which probably highlights the fact why we suck.

So I’m not sure why you’re calling me out when I’m saying the Rider fan just went on pages and pages telling us this team is too talented laughable and we we have a lot of young forwards on the roster getting better daily again laughable when we have 2. He also suggested we use our cap space in free agency to address holes because we aren’t far off being an annual 9th place contender.

Sends me a list of teams that outside of Buffalo have just started to come out of the super bad phase and even then most teams continue to suck for a bit after getting the talent in the top 5 for a bit before they make progress. Even with the progress it takes more time because you have to plug holes now with trades and free agency and push your chips in. Those teams also usually go through a coaching change, some even a manager change. Takes time.

Crosby missed the playoffs his first season. MacKinnon went through some serious lows. McDavid barf toom time and the worst western conference of all time to get to the finals. So I’m not sure why they are expecting Anaheim and San Jose to be contending this season.

Don’t listen to Rider fans.

I’m not arguing about the top-5 pick thing either, I’ve been beating that drum for years.

I’m saying they’re not going to make the playoffs anyway, so there’s no sense worrying over whatever fleeting moments of success they do have.

Look, they’re already the lowest cap team in the league, or they were at one point this summer.

They can’t do anything but trade their UFAs and put their best foot forward on the ice.

They’re starting Vladar half the time. Do you want them to start him more? Because we can’t trade him if everyone knows he sucks. He has to look good in limited action and convince some desperate schmuck he’s worth a 2nd round pick at the deadline.

Conroy says a lot of things. Don’t listen to what he says. Look at what he does.

You can disagree with the value of his returns, but in every opportunity he’s maximized the return on his assets, or he’s extended players to team friendly deals.

The “best” players on the team probably have this year, and this year only, to be reasonably effective first line NHLers. And they’re still 26th in goals for.

They’re middle of the pack defensively. 16th in goals against.

Basically, when they get lights out goaltending, they win.

Them and everyone else.

If it’s league average, or straight bad, as it has been for most of December, they can’t win.

That’s not a playoff team. It’s not close to a playoff team.

It might not be a bottom-5 team, but from what I’ve seen, this group finishing outside the bottom-10 would constitute a massive overachievement.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Don’t listen to Rider fans.

I’m not arguing about the top-5 pick thing either, I’ve been beating that drum for years.

I’m saying they’re not going to make the playoffs anyway, so there’s no sense worrying over whatever fleeting moments of success they do have.

Look, they’re already the lowest cap team in the league, or they were at one point this summer.

They can’t do anything but trade their UFAs and put their best foot forward on the ice.

They’re starting Vladar half the time. Do you want them to start him more? Because we can’t trade him if everyone knows he sucks. He has to look good in limited action and convince some desperate schmuck he’s worth a 2nd round pick at the deadline.

Conroy says a lot of things. Don’t listen to what he says. Look at what he does.

You can disagree with the value of his returns, but in every opportunity he’s maximized the return on his assets, or he’s extended players to team friendly deals.

The “best” players on the team probably have this year, and this year only, to be reasonably effective first line NHLers. And they’re still 26th in goals for.

They’re middle of the pack defensively. 16th in goals against.

Basically, when they get lights out goaltending, they win.

Them and everyone else.

If it’s league average, or straight bad, as it has been for most of December, they can’t win.

That’s not a playoff team. It’s not close to a playoff team.

It might not be a bottom-5 team, but from what I’ve seen, this group finishing outside the bottom-10 would constitute a massive overachievement.

Short of sending down the waiver eligible guys (Coronato, Wolf and I believe Zary is also eligible) I am not sure what more Conroy could do to ice a lineup that should be competing for a top 5 pick.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Short of sending down the waiver eligible guys (Coronato, Wolf and I believe Zary is also eligible) I am not sure what more Conroy could do to ice a lineup that should be competing for a top 5 pick.

Maybe if we started hoping hard enough for losses and booed when the Flames scored, it would help.

[dino7c]

Wolf has been very good but I wouldn't say he has stolen many games. Flames are full marks for nearly all their wins. They are often the better team on the deserve to win o meter. Some posters spent the entire summer mocking anyone that didn't agree this was a bottom 5 or even bottom 3 team are are using Wolf as the only "excuse". Team D is pretty solid, home record is outstanding.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wolf has been very good but I wouldn't say he has stolen many games. Flames are full marks for nearly all their wins. They are often the better team on the deserve to win o meter. Some posters spent the entire summer mocking anyone that didn't agree this was a bottom 5 or even bottom 3 team are are using Wolf as the only "excuse". Team D is pretty solid, home record is outstanding.

I don’t think the coaches get nearly enough credit. They have this team fighting well above their weight class. Give Huska a team with more talent, and he could maybe take them somewhere.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Wolf has been very good but I wouldn't say he has stolen many games. Flames are full marks for nearly all their wins. They are often the better team on the deserve to win o meter. Some posters spent the entire summer mocking anyone that didn't agree this was a bottom 5 or even bottom 3 team are are using Wolf as the only "excuse". Team D is pretty solid, home record is outstanding.

What happened to your forwards ? One of the worst scoring teams and can’t generate much quality either. You spent all summer telling us that.

When your team can barely manage to get 3 goals it’s the goalie bailing you out. We saw it with Kipper carrying David moss into the playoffs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The other crazy part is no one is blaming Conroy. Not sure how a poster can draw that conclusion.

Conroy has done what he can.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Crazy part is it used to be a strength not too long ago with Lindholm, Backlund, Monahan

Lindholm played wing his first season. He was moved to the middle during the winter game vs Winnipeg the next season when the team struggled. Shortly after Peters stepped down and Ward decided it was time to make Backlund a winger.

The team was out of sorts and once we got Backlund back at C we couldn’t roll lines and Covid hit.

We went into the bubble and they tried to split up Lindholm Johnny and Monny and it didn’t work. The only time we looked good was those 3 together and Bennett centering Lucic and Dube.

We come out of the bubble and Ward says we asked Bennett what position he wants to play and he says center. So they start him off as a winger on the 4th line in camp.

So no it was never a position of strength especially with the mismanagement of Bennett and Monny and his injuries. Outside of Backlund no one could carry a line without Gaudreau.

That’s why they made the move for Kadri.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I don’t think the coaches get nearly enough credit. They have this team fighting well above their weight class. Give Huska a team with more talent, and he could maybe take them somewhere.

That is the one area where Conroy did not try to put out a bottom five team, coaching. Huska is an elite coach who has this team punching above their weight.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Goriders

They didn’t draft Tkachuk though. That’s the debate. I don’t disagree with what you said about high level talent. Just what’s the avenue to get them. Only through the draft? Only via free agency and trades? Or a mix.

Tkachuk isn't a player that you can pick to prove a point for yourself here, however. How did Florida get him? Tkachuk simply decided he didn't want to remain in this market, and even though he didn't have an NTC, still forced the Flames to trade him by telling Treliving that he will not be extending in Calgary, and handing Treliving a 5 team list that he was willing to play in.


When was the last time Calgary was in a 5 team list of preferred destinations?


Calgary is not a market that is anywhere close to being on an equal footing as half the league. The only time that they can attract above average UFAs in their prime is when this team is competing (like when they attracted both Tanev and Markstrom). They massively outbid other teams for Richards and lost out. Stone apparently indicated that he wouldn't re-sign in Calgary if they traded for him, but he extended in Vegas right away.


I don't think it will happen, but I would love to see a cap on NTC/NMC in the next collective bargaining agreement. That will most certainly help a team like Calgary with so many players having those clauses with Calgary on it. Heck, even Kumenko had to be encouraged to waive it by promises of opportunity and playing time here. I bet right now he is regretting it, as he isn't getting either (and rightfully so as he hasn't been good). Kuzmenko could have just stuck to his guns, and Conroy might have been forced to take a worse offer from somewone else because Vancouver wouldn't be able to make the money work. That's the position that Calgary is in when it comes to trades now, not to mention having to overpay for UFAs or sign guys hungry to 'show me' deals trying to keep their careers alive.


It still won't fix young players telling Calgary that they will not extend here, but at least it will give Calgary more options on how to build a good team. For now, Calgary is extremely handcuffed in building a team other than through the draft. The can certainly make a series of trades and UFA signings and get back to being a bubble team, but that shouldn't be the goal. The goal is to build a good enough team that it can actually contend for a few years for as long as the core is here and young enough.



The goal is to open a window of contention, not 'squeak in and hope for the best', and Calgary is just way to handcuffed to build a good team any other way right now than through the draft. Once they do, and they become a good team, less players are likely to have Calgary on their NTC (though they will always have too many that do have them on the list). That's how I see it. Trying to build a team through the UFA market or through trades is, IMO, putting the cart in front of the horse at best.



I guess we will see what happens and what Conroy has cooking up, but I do expect this team to bottom-out and for the bulk of the core to be drafted in the next few years. Maybe Conroy does manage to make a series of moves and prove me an idiot - that would be great if he does. I just think it will be the more difficult path forward.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Elite goalies make can make any coach look elite.

[Paulie Walnuts]

They also traded 2 of their best players that they drafted for Tkachuk. They also made the other moves to fill holes when the team was ready to contend, not at the beginning of a rebuild cycle.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

When your team can barely manage to get 3 goals it’s the goalie bailing you out.

And again, hard work. If the goaltending is only needing to be good but not spectacular it isn't bailing you out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Inferno

And again, hard work. If the goaltending is only needing to be good but not spectacular it isn't bailing you out.

Sure they work hard. It’s a team coached to play as low event as possible. But the goalie splits have been equal and one is significantly out performing the other.

So if we don’t have Wolf where is this team ? They can hardly score.

[DJones]

I honestly don't understand how people think this team could be bottom 2-3 next year.

The amount of actively terrible choices they would have to make to intentionally destroy the team and do absolutely nothing to fix it would be insane. On top of that you would have to pray that all our young players just give up. We're already a small market, embarrassing ourselves for a few years ain't going to help retention. Not to mention owners would freak out when people stop supporting the team.

Conroy is right in completely ignoring those ideas.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Sure they work hard. It’s a team coached to play as low event as possible. But the goalie splits have been equal and one is significantly out performing the other.

So if we don’t have Wolf where is this team ? They can hardly score.

Wolf having better stats than Vladar doesn't mean he's the only reason the team has the record they do.

It's not like they got dominated in every one of his 10 wins. In many of those wins he just needed to be good and not great. If the team just packed it in every time things got tough he would just have more close losses.

It's ok to say the team is where they are because of hard work AND goaltending.