Canmore population to double? Legal battle?

[curves2000]

Being self employed and in business myself, this thread is fascinating to me. I don't own a home there but visit a ton of times over the year. I can't say I have felt any sort of animosity on my end ever.

I will say that perhaps in some scenarios this might be more of social class situation perhaps? I can see a lot of high net-worth and income individuals from Calgary arriving and stirring up the pot with some of the locals in a demeaning way and it rubbing people the wrong way.

In any event, we all agree that we should support small business as much as we can these days but our hard earned dollars also need to be appreciated.

I am going to email the Bow Valley Chamber of Commerce with a link to this thread as I think they should know some of the attitudes and how it may be affecting business locally.

A resident of Banff, Canmore, Calgary, Okotoks, Regina whatever. We are visitors into the town. Being Greek myself, we all pride ourselves on a term called "Philoxenia" which is a philosophy of welcoming strangers or foreigners into your home, town, country etc. Most visitors will always say they felt extremely welcomed on their travels to Greece

This clip from the Greek Wedding movie sums it up how we should all feel.

https://youtu.be/6BFnMUJFfYk?si=NPc6KqtRrBOMKVE1

[Brupal]

I wasn’t sure where MacGregor Lake was so I had to look it up to make sure it wasn’t just another name for Glennifer Lake. That place has the exact same qualities, except it is west of Bowden. It seems to be a place where most people go only on weekends throughout the summer, although there are a few that reside all summer long. Everyone has a nicer mobile home or park model or 5th wheel and it seems the moment they arrive they leave their old persona behind and try to cram as much drinking and socializing and site hopping in as possible. When we were invited for our third visit we started referring to the place as Lush Lane because we couldn’t get over the constant party mentality. And when people asked if we were thinking of buying there, I had to resist blurting out not in a million years. I want to get away from noisy uninhibited drunks on my time off. But ask anyone who owns there and they love it, can’t get enough of it, and don’t have anything bad to say about weekenders from Calgary because each and every one of them is themselves. Maybe therein lies the solution, create small enclaves that embrace the second home for non-locals.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I am going to email the Bow Valley Chamber of Commerce with a link to this thread as I think they should know some of the attitudes and how it may be affecting business locally.

Dear Chamber of Commerce, you're not going to believe this, but people are arguing on the internet.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

I dunno man. Many of the richest people I know are people who didn't bother with university, went straight into working, and bought real estate early. People aren't working for their wealth anymore. When housing is the hot commodity and there's a shortage, it's all about owning as much as you can. Spending 6-10 years on a professional degree is time and opportunities costs wasted that could be put into flipping houses and "earning" hundreds of thousands.

Successful tradespeople who get into flipping houses aren’t really representative of the less-educated population. Most people without degrees work in retail, food services, driving delivery trucks, etc.

I’m still liking the odds of a couple who have university degrees, are the children of degree-holders, and earn $100k+ in the professions to get on the housing ladder and pass on intergenerational wealth to their kids vs someone who has a diploma in hospitality management, parents who didn’t go to university, and earns $50k working as a shift manager at Boston Pizza.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by you&me

I used to spend a lot of time at a friend's place in Canmore when we were in our young drinking days and there was definitely a lot of animosity from other guys our age when we'd be out at the Drake or Grizzly Paw... I had more close-calls with getting into fights in Canmore on my occasional visits than all of my bar nights in Calgary combined... It definitely had a "hostile to outsiders" vibe.

Ironically, the other "local" kids your age were probably the children of couple who moved there from Calgary.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Successful tradespeople who get into flipping houses aren’t really representative of the less-educated population. Most people without degrees work in retail, food services, driving delivery trucks, etc.

I’m still liking the odds of a couple who have university degrees, are the children of degree-holders, and earn $100k+ in the professions to get on the housing ladder and pass on intergenerational wealth to their kids vs someone who has a diploma in hospitality management, parents who didn’t go to university, and earns $50k working as a shift manager at Boston Pizza.

You don't need to even flip houses. You just need to actually buy one. Things are different in Calgary, where up until recently the markets were horribly depressed. But buying a house in 2007 vs 2015 created a massive difference in wealth for people I know.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

You don't need to even flip houses. You just need to actually buy one. Things are different in Calgary, where up until recently the markets were horribly depressed. But buying a house in 2007 vs 2015 created a massive difference in wealth for people I know.

Right. But it’s less of a problem for people whose parents can kick in 60 or 80k. Property wealth is becoming intergenerational again, like it was 100+ year ago.

[The Yen Man]

Yah, it's like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

"We want you to spend your money here, but we also want you to GTFO. You aren't welcome here."

Without tourism, Canmore is pretty much just some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yah, it's like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

"We want you to spend your money here, but we also want you to GTFO. You aren't welcome here."

Without tourism, Canmore is pretty much just some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

I recall my buddy and I chatting about the dream of buying a condo out there probably 6-7 years ago. Something we could get quick relaxing weekend trips out/day at the hills (ie: maybe one with BBQ, hot tub, underground parking etc. or something just bare bones) and then we'd toss the property in the rental pool to supplement the costs of ownership.

Then he read strata agreements and looked at some of the bylaws and the vacancy rules + rental rules and told me he was confused as hell as to how it was even legal. There was a weird rule where only half of the units could be occupied at any given time including rentals. You had to notify the management company on a monthly(?) basis who would be there on a week to week basis to ensure this rule was enforced. Residents and personal use take precedence, so you couldn't rent out the units if too many people were in the units at the same time. It was just straight up bizarre and idiotic so we shelved that idea.

I hope the rules are not still this stupid and I don't recall exactly the wording we read, but I remembered we looked at each other and said it would make sense to look into other options vs those $200-250K condo units. I do recall those rules were something almost on par with the anti-Air BnB rules several years before many cities and communities started banning or heavily restricting Air BnB. IIRC, we also looked into time shares and saw similar issues with attempting to acquire one.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yah, it's like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

"We want you to spend your money here, but we also want you to GTFO. You aren't welcome here."

Without tourism, Canmore is pretty much just some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

Ya, that is exactly what is happening... Sigh.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Right. But it’s less of a problem for people whose parents can kick in 60 or 80k. Property wealth is becoming intergenerational again, like it was 100+ year ago.

I don't disagree with that at all. We are 100% heading towards a class system, largely separated by people born into families that own lots of property and those born into families without it.

My point is that "earning" wealth via a professional degree isn't all that it's cracked out to be. Firstly, if you can earn $140k a year in various trades, you might be better off not spending all that money and taking a decade out of the work force. And, secondly, getting a professional degree, with a few exceptions, isn't going to help you overcome generational wealth. If you aren't earning the big bucks from property, you may not be better off going the professional degree path.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don’t understand why people think a bigger Canmore will mean more affordable housing. As the population of southern Alberta grows, the number of people with deep pockets who will be willing to buy into new properties in a prime location like Canmore will greatly exceed the number of new units, even if they build thousands. That’s the way resort towns work - they don’t get cheaper.

A Canmore at 2x the population of today will be just as expensive. It will just mean more restaurants and stores employing more service workers who have nowhere to live.

Yes, but that means 2x the population get to experience their version of Canmore. The alternative is not building and the demand continues to skyrocket.

There was a post about induced demand - we all accept it, but new highways still get built and lanes still get added to Deerfoot. It's not like we throw up our hands because it's induced demand and then never improve our infrastructure.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That's not the real issue though, never has been. It's the vacation places that most take issue with. The locals aren't on a FYGM mission, because most do welcome residents. And the long term residents are also the ones who believed in the town and stayed when the mine closed and it looked pretty bleak for a few years.



it's weird people don't get why members of the community are upset to see the reasons they moved to Canmore in the first place get destroyed, and not because the residents voted for it. They have little choice.

I know people involved with the Grizzly Paw Brewery. As of a few years ago (but probably still today) there are lots of old locals who don’t consider them authentic members of the community. But Tbf the Paw has only been around since like 1996.

Now I’m sure that’s a bit hyperbolic, but the Us vs Them mentality in Canmore is definitely a thing. A weird and gross thing (true of most tourist towns Tbf)

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Yah, it's like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

"We want you to spend your money here, but we also want you to GTFO. You aren't welcome here."

Without tourism, Canmore is pretty much just some backwater town in the middle of nowhere.

Have you seen Cranbrook and many other BC mountain towns where people don't typically go to stay and explore?

It looks like bowness in the 80s but in 2023. Nothing is new or updated except for a few major chain businesses.

If canmore was overlooked or just treated by tourists as a pit stop the town would be that too.

I never realized there was that kind of conflict there since I only talk to younger business owners and residents who are generally warm and enthusiastic but the old dogs should find some gratitude for how their town has prospered.

Getting mad at progress when populations are growing at an accelerated rate and you're sitting in a major tourist corridor is about as productive as getting angry at the weather. It's inevitable.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I know people involved with the Grizzly Paw Brewery. As of a few years ago (but probably still today) there are lots of old locals who don’t consider them authentic members of the community. But Tbf the Paw has only been around since like 1996.

Now I’m sure that’s a bit hyperbolic, but the Us vs Them mentality in Canmore is definitely a thing. A weird and gross thing (true of most tourist towns Tbf)

Haha, ya I know those guys and remember those days. That was always a weird one to me, we basically loved it since the day it opened. But we were the bike club, and bike and breweries are a natural fit. For the world cup we had a quickest flat change contest on the patio.

Buuuuut it's so hard to get into now I haven't been in years.

[blender]

I lived in Canmore from 2000-03. It changed a lot even during that short time, but it was a tiny fraction of what it is now.

I was working construction of course and we were building a lavish custom home for a wealthy software entrepreneur from Philadelphia. He was building a vacation home for him and his wife as a surprise. If it turned out she didn't like it, no big deal. The place was a million bucks just to build, which would be 2-3m now, easy. I asked him about the cost and if it was any kind of a consideration and he told me he searched every mountain town on the east slope of the rockies from Nevada north and Canmore was the cheapest by far.

It's all relative, and I suspect that same factor may hold true today. There will always be folks with that kind of disposable income--at least until everything falls apart and we're all ####ed--and places like Canmore will get developed. It's quite unfortunate for the people who can't afford to keep up with the costs that invariably are driven up, but inequality is an inherent reality of our society. It is literally built in, so what can really be done?

[monkey brewery]

Jesus, you guys really are gonna make me google FYGM.

Well I'm not going to.

[Tron_fdc]

Just about every recent transplant I know in Fernie originally looked at Canmore. It's the running joke with residents. "I looked at Canmore but it was too expensive so I came here".

It's the same thing where I am though. There are 2 questions you get asked the minute you meet someone.

What do you do for a living?

When did you move here?

It's a subtle/not so subtle weiner measuring competition for street cred.

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by monkey brewery

Jesus, you guys really are gonna make me google FYGM.

Well I'm not going to.

I am not going to tell you. I got mine, #### you.

[Sliver]

Bump to redirect Canmore talk out of the Jasper wildfire thread.