Watching a Flames team that sucks for a couple of years but is loaded with young, hopefully promising and improving players would be far more fun to me than what we watched last year.
It was only ever going to be forced. Even hearing Conroy's first few interviews it seems like the organization just wants to keep running it back for the "get in and anything can happen" strategy. I'm good with a new reality having to set in with the number of players wanting out.
__________________
A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
The Kings work in progress is very close to where the Flames hit their ceiling in their win-now mode. They are looking down at the current Flames.
I think this remains very much to be seen. The Kings had only two players score +70 points, and four of their top-six producers are all over thirty. They have some intriguing young players in the mix, but this team is still only as good as Kopitar and Doughty will perform. They have a long way to go yet.
Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Yeah, I don’t see the Kings cresting much higher than they are now. Kopitar and Doughty are still two of their top players, and unless Byfield has a dramatic breakout I don’t see a lot of potential internal improvement. They’re a good team, but they’re in the ‘could go on a run if they get great goaltending’ category of teams, not a legitimate Cup contender.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
We read last week that Tkachuk (and Gudbranson, but he's not really relevant to this) was the go-between that protected the team from Sutter. My theory is that Tkachuk wanted to stay (like he said he did), but the off-season conversation that happened wasn't so much about wanting to be Captain, rather it was "Sutter goes or I go."
I think people still leaving now after Sutter's been fired is out of not wanting to stay with an org that chose Sutter over Tkachuk and Gaudreau.
I say "and Gaudreau" because now I'm wondering if we have things backwards a bit. People have suggested that Tkachuk left because Gaudreau left. I'm now thinking that the "last minute thing that changed Johnny's mind" was the team keeping Sutter over Tkachuk and the ensuing idea of playing for Sutter without Tkachuk there to be the mediator.
Edit: (So, from Backlund's, Lindholm's (etc) perspective, it's like "you fire him now, after costing us two really good players/friends/linemates AND putting us through hell last season, when we all felt the same way about him all along? yeah, no thanks")
The Kings work in progress is very close to where the Flames hit their ceiling in their win-now mode. They are looking down at the current Flames.
The original point was that rebuilds don't take that long. First, LA is the exception. Second, they still had a very effective duo in Kopitar and Doughty. Third, they are still very much a work in prgress.
You keep arguing that the Flames suck. That doesn't change the fact that rebuilds take longer than you're suggesting.
The original point was that rebuilds don't take that long. First, LA is the exception. Second, they still had a very effective duo in Kopitar and Doughty. Third, they are still very much a work in prgress.
You keep arguing that the Flames suck. That doesn't change the fact that rebuilds take longer than you're suggesting.
I suggested 5 years and I think that's totally doable.
We read last week that Tkachuk (and Gudbranson, but he's not really relevant to this) was the go-between that protected the team from Sutter. My theory is that Tkachuk wanted to stay (like he said he did), but the off-season conversation that happened wasn't so much about wanting to be Captain, rather it was "Sutter goes or I go."
I think people still leaving now after Sutter's been fired is out of not wanting to stay with an org that chose Sutter over Tkachuk and Gaudreau.
I say "and Gaudreau" because now I'm wondering if we have things backwards a bit. People have suggested that Tkachuk left because Gaudreau left. I'm now thinking that the "last minute thing that changed Johnny's mind" was the team keeping Sutter over Tkachuk and the ensuing idea of playing for Sutter without Tkachuk there to be the mediator.
Edit: (So, from Backlund's, Lindholm's (etc) perspective, it's like "you fire him now, after costing us two really good players/friends/linemates AND putting us through hell last season, when we all felt the same way about him all along? yeah, no thanks")
I am cautiously getting more excited for next season but until moves are actually made I’m not holding my breath. This team has repeatedly shown it will do everything possible to avoid doing the right thing so they no longer get the benefit of the doubt even when it is clear what needs to be done.
So if all of the reporting is correct and we end up seeing Hanifin, Lindholm, Backlund looking for a new team, what are the most likely options moving forward?
1. Trade them all for picks in the stacked 2023 draft
2. Trade them for other roster players and again try to squeeze into the playoffs while bringing some of the other young guys along.
3. Trade them for prospects and "change-of-scenery" prospects and players, hoping they blossom here with more opportunity.
4. Some mixture of picks, prospects, roster players
For me and I suspect many others, option 1 is far and away the best choice and would give us the greatest chance of building a contending team (hopefully by the time the new arena opens).
But I don't think it's foregone conclusion that we trade these guys for high picks even though it feels painfully obvious to the majority of us on here. Is this something Edwards would actually entertain after just signing Huberdeau/Kadri/Weegar last summer? I don't know, but I want to believe.
Conspiracy theory:
Backlund wants to help the Flames. So he will sacrifice his last year to bring some good return to the team and then he will sign with Flames as UFA.
Retool/rebuild will take 3 years and the team will compete for the cup 5 year straight starting 2026-2027 season.
So if all of the reporting is correct and we end up seeing Hanifin, Lindholm, Backlund looking for a new team, what are the most likely options moving forward?
1. Trade them all for picks in the stacked 2023 draft
2. Trade them for other roster players and again try to squeeze into the playoffs while bringing some of the other young guys along.
3. Trade them for prospects and "change-of-scenery" prospects and players, hoping they blossom here with more opportunity.
4. Some mixture of picks, prospects, roster players
For me and I suspect many others, option 1 is far and away the best choice and would give us the greatest chance of building a contending team (hopefully by the time the new arena opens).
But I don't think it's foregone conclusion that we trade these guys for high picks even though it feels painfully obvious to the majority of us on here. Is this something Edwards would actually entertain after just signing Huberdeau/Kadri/Weegar last summer? I don't know, but I want to believe.
Number 4. This team isn't nearly as terrible as some people think, and not as bad as they looked last year. With their defense and a bounce back at all by Markstrom they'll contend for a playoff spot all season. And they still have some decent forwards. They're not tanking, not sure they could if they tried.
You also can't trade those guys and get nothing back to put on your roster. They'll need some warm bodies either way. But yes, I would love to see some futures involved to stock up the prospect cupboard.
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to KootenayFlamesFan For This Useful Post:
Everyone is excited at the prospect of getting a bunch of 1sts in this draft. But even if ownership is convinced of the need to retool, I just don’t think they will OK a burn-it-to-the-ground-for-picks rebuild. More likely a retool will involve 4. Some mixture of picks, prospects, and roster players.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 06-22-2023 at 01:39 PM.
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to CliffFletcher For This Useful Post:
As I said before I heard that the Flames are strongly leaning toward naming Rasmus Andersson as Captain. If that is indeed the case that might have been taken as a slight by Backlund. Combine that with the uncertainty of the ability to contend from this team and his career in the twilight years and it is not really surprising he would want out.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dissentowner For This Useful Post:
I think if you're trading away a decent 1C and a very good 3C at the same time, you need to have a center if you're not intending to straight up tank as Kadri is a better fit for 2C. We have Kylington coming back hopefully so that should backfill the LD position adequately, but there's no one really on the cusp of taking one of the top two center spots on the NHL team.
__________________
Until the Flames make the Western Finals again, this signature shall remain frozen.
Everyone is excited at the prospect of getting a bunch of 1sts in this draft. But even if ownership is convinced of the need to retool, I just don’t think they will OK a burn-it-to-the-ground-for-picks rebuild. More likely a retool will involve 4. Some mixture of picks, prospects, and roster players.
I don't know. Can you make the playoffs with a single center in your top nine that is a #2 at best? I just don't see a retool trade that brings in center that gets them back into playoff contention. If Tanev and Toffoli want out as well that will leave them a lot of holes to try and retool around.
