2021: Vatican Calls Homosexuality a "Sin"

[Snuffleupagus]

The whole Vatican City should be emptied and mothballed, all it's treasures and bank accounts should be spread to it's victims and the family's of the victims.

Yeah, I said it

[driveway]

Religions with a strong emphasis on hats are probably dumb.


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[CroFlames]

The orthodox have the best hats.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The orthodox have the best hats.

Only if you remove Pastafarians from the mix.

[Minnie]

The only pope I'll worship is Moira Rose

[Wastedyouth]

Is religion still a thing?

That, in my opinion, is more shocking than the fact that these loons think something is a sin.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yes, worship and ritual are ways to give people some sense that they have control. Cut the throat of a white bull in the spring, link hands and chant the holy verse just so, and the harvest will be bountiful. Hopefully.

But what’s the alternative in a society where you have no practical way to ensure that the crops won’t fail and the plague won’t come, no way to materially safeguard your wellbeing? Resign yourself to the horror of an indifferent universe?

Why is an indifferent universe a horror?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Is religion still a thing?

That, in my opinion, is more shocking than the fact that these loons think something is a sin.

Isn’t it more remarkable that something that has existed since the dawn of humanity is being decided not to exist. For thousands of years religion has led to the survival of the species, part of whatever survival of the fittest genetic code that made us protect in groups and be fearful of out groups.

Isn’t it remarkable how rapidly it’s fading?

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by GGG

Isn’t it more remarkable that something that has existed since the dawn of humanity is being decided not to exist. For thousands of years religion has led to the survival of the species, part of whatever survival of the fittest genetic code that made us protect in groups and be fearful of out groups.

Isn’t it remarkable how rapidly it’s fading?

Not so much fading as it is evolving for the modern age. See: MAGA, Q-Anon, etc.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

The whole Vatican City should be emptied and mothballed, all it's treasures and bank accounts should be spread to it's victims and the family's of the victims.

Yeah, I said it

I may be wrong but I believe the Catholic Church is the largest private holder of real estate on the planet.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I may be wrong but I believe the Catholic Church is the largest private holder of real estate on the planet.

This is a little dated (references Benedict instead of Francis), but according to this source, the Pope is #3 in the world. Behind King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia (#2) and Queen Elizabeth II (#1).

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Not so much fading as it is evolving for the modern age. See: MAGA, Q-Anon, etc.

On all sides there are very real trends towards the sort of stuff religions are built out of. It's not all that unlikely in 200 years we will see completely new dominant forms of religion cropping up that don't directly contradict our know of physics. They might not even be deistic or see themselves as religious, but group think and confirmation bias are two hella drugs.

Diet/Cleanses
Chiropractors/Naturopaths
Simulation Theorists
Agnostic Mysticism / Panpsychism
Acupuncture / Pressure / Cupping...
Anti-Vax / GMO / food processing...
Flat Earther
Panspermists

There are people in a lot of areas building identities around value judgements of things they feel could be right, without careful consideration of any contradictory information.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

This is a little dated (references Benedict instead of Francis), but according to this source, the Pope is #3 in the world. Behind King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia (#2) and Queen Elizabeth II (#1).

there is no way Brenda is the worlds largest owner of real estate, unless you are counting 'crown' lands in Canada

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Why is an indifferent universe a horror?

In the brutal world most humans endured for most of history, where famine, plague, war, and endless toil with no means or hope to improve you conditions was your fate, it would likely feel horrific. There’s a reason every society in every corner of the earth developed religion. Clearly it met some fundamental human need.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Not so much fading as it is evolving for the modern age. See: MAGA, Q-Anon, etc.

And other political movements. https://reason.com/2020/06/29/kneeli...ocial-justice/

Wherever people prefer to feel rather than think, reduce complex issues to dogmatic narratives of good vs evil, erect taboos and shibboleths around speech and behaviour, and conspicuously demonstrate their own moral virtue while denouncing and shaming dissenters, you’re seeing the social function of religion play out.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Gods aren’t really a way to ensure nothing bad will happen to you. They’re a way to find solace from the awful conditions most humans lived in for most of history.

Every half-dozen years or so, the crops would fail and famine would descend on your village, afflicting everyone with dreadful hunger and leaving suckling babies dead in their mothers’ arms. There was nothing you could do about this. Plagues would rise out of famine and kill one in four, sometimes wiping out whole villages. There was nothing you could do about this. Bandits and rampaging armies would sweep into your village, raping and slaying with impunity. There was nothing you could do about this.

Your parents and their parents and their parents and their parents suffered these calamities and there was nothing they could do about them either.

If you were fortunate, a strong and wise king might sustain a commonwealth and protect you from the worst catastrophes for 10 or 15 years. Then the only suffering you had to endure was the endless toil of trudging through ditches and #### farming rice or wheat by hand from sunup to sundown 300 days a year until your body broke down. And you couldn’t change that either.

Is it any surprise people living in that state turn to spiritual succor and the structure of ritual for meaning and security?

Beacuse following religion really helps that cause.


Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

...and other political movements. Wherever people prefer to feel rather than think, reduce complex issues to emotionally reassuring narratives of good vs evil, erect taboos and shibboleths around speech and behaviour, and conspicuously demonstrate their own moral virtue while denouncing and shaming dissenters, you’re seeing the social function of religion play out.

And most human decision making is based on emotion and then we wrap it up in logic to make us feel rational. It’s a shortcut that allows humanity to exist without endless analysis paralysis.

It’s a really good point above that religion isn’t dwindling it’s being replaced by other forms of non-rational belief to replace a human need.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Beacuse following religion really helps that cause.


Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

An outsider who was a threat to the orderly allocation of resources in the society who could not follow societies rules was stoned to death. This helped the genetic material of the survivors be passed down and groups that didn’t have this trait did not survive or were infiltrated and taken over.

So yes following religion led to structural stability in the indifferent universe.

You also gain comfort that your actions will prevent the same fate from befalling your group.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

there is no way Brenda is the worlds largest owner of real estate, unless you are counting 'crown' lands in Canada

I think they are, and agree it is a stretch if technically true. When it comes to bits and pieces of land across the globe and not just inherited royal title, the Catholic Church must be at the top. When it comes to revenue generated directly from real estate holdings, I don't think they are anywhere near the top though.

I do find it funny that with only a couple of exceptions, almost all the people on the list have inherited title because either they, or their ancestors, were deemed to be appointed by a god to better than normal people. I'd rather put my faith in Ted Turner than them lol.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GGG

An outsider who was a threat to the orderly allocation of resources in the society who could not follow societies rules was stoned to death. This helped the genetic material of the survivors be passed down and groups that didn’t have this trait did not survive or were infiltrated and taken over.

So yes following religion led to structural stability in the indifferent universe.

You also gain comfort that your actions will prevent the same fate from befalling your group.

It should be pointed out that the passages Cheese has cited are badly misunderstood today, thanks in no small part to how the Church over thousands of years marshalled the idea of "scripture" to equate with "the Word of God."

The book of Deuteronomy was royal propaganda written in the sixth century BCE by the priests in King Josiah's administration, and it was intended to bolster his programme of religious reforms which sought to eradicate sacrificial offerings to gods other than the nationalistic deity of Judah, YHWH. But moreover, this programme was also set on ensuring that ALL sacrifices were performed exclusively within the Temple precincts in Jerusalem, which was frequented only by a very select few men on a regular basis. The edict described here is commonly called "the ban," or "the ḥerem," and it made for good rhetoric, but was almost certainly never practised. It is fairly typical of language in royal propaganda pieces from throughout the Ancient Near Eastern world.

The second passage stems from another text written by priests, probably not any earlier than the mid-eighth century BCE. The purpose of this document were to establish correct procedures of sacrifice in the Jerusalem temple, and also to bolster the exclusive legitimacy of the priestly caste commonly designated the b'ny Aḥaron, or the "Sons of Aaron." Much like the first passage, while this is an account of astonishingly arbitrary and unforgiving punishment for what seems to be an extremely minor offense, the exaggeration is also part of the point. Again, it is almost certain that such punishments were never actually carried out, and that this was part of a much larger hyperbolic reminder of the cruciality of "holiness," and the lengths to which one must go to attain it.