Calgary Police Officer Killed During New Years Traffic Stop

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Well that's all well and good but none of those arguments really apply to this thread. The discussion is about someone who participated in a crime at age 20, not the hardened criminal with the "50 page rap sheet" you're talking about. It's certainly not about child molesters or people who might be psychologically wired to repeat their offense. So the commentary may apply somewhere but it seems ill-placed here.

[Mr.Coffee]

Sometimes thread topics evolve and change as the discussion goes. Really doesn’t seem like a big deal but sure guess we could start a new thread if necessary.

I really don’t get the need to go around thread policing topics, seems awfully pointless.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sometimes thread topics evolve and change as the discussion goes. Really doesn’t seem like a big deal but sure guess we could start a new thread if necessary.

I really don’t get the need to go around thread policing topics, seems awfully pointless.

Evolved or not, I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that everyone here is insinuating that “this” topic is black and white when most people aren’t talking about the topic you are and the few that are have suggested nothing remotely similar?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Evolved or not, I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that everyone here is insinuating that “this” topic is black and white when most people aren’t talking about the topic you are and the few that are have suggested nothing remotely similar?

None of these posts are talking about the side topic of rehabilitation vs. punishment as justice system concepts?

Really? Corsi's is especially hilarious. He writes that, I reply to it, and then he says 'hey stay on topic'. Uh, I was literally replying to you?

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You know, because of those on this board who work in law enforcement or work adjacent to it, I’ve actually learned a lot and my perception has definitely changed from where it was even an couple of ago. I’ve done my best to listen and keep an open mind, especially in recognizing the vast difference between police in Calgary and in some areas of the US.

You’re siding with someone who wants the death penalty and a much crueler justice system than the US. I didn’t take you for the type who wanted to kill and abuse criminals, honestly. Had you wrong.

Originally Posted by MBates

Should him taking genuine steps toward rehabilitation and getting on the 'right track' matter if it took him going to prison after a person's life was taken before he got the message? Again, our law says it matters. I have heard other homicide victim's family members talk about how it matters to them. Not always of course.

I fully appreciate my perspective is shaped by my career experiences. I know your comment was directed at others but I am not sure it is 'making excuses' for people to advocate for a principled and restrained approach to punishment for crimes.

I also, take no issue with people advocating for a more harsh / longer sentences approach.

For those that do, however, I would prefer to see them also do two things:

1. Address the costs and how it assists society to pay for significantly extended incarceration of people at a cost of about $118,000 per year per person; and

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/r...dex-en.aspx#s1

2. Address why they are uncritical of the deplorable manner in which incarceration in Canada systemically ignores internationally recognized standards of care.

https://macleans.ca/news/canada/hous...tem-is-broken/

I raise the first issue because at our current punishment practices our jails and prisons are in disrepair, over crowded and understaffed. If you added 30% to every sentence starting tomorrow, well, let's just be honest...you couldn't. Because apparently nobody wants to pay taxes at a level to properly incarcerate people now, never mind more often and for longer.

I raise the second issue because well, after 20 years of watching us use methods of systemic abuse (including for example solitary confinement to a level recognized internationally as torture, and in Alberta completely ignoring the "Mandela Rules" a Canadian-signed UN treaty setting Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners), I can't help but wonder how we think behaving that way will help offenders learn to respect the law and society when they get out?

Maybe our manner of using incarceration is itself not on the 'right track'? It is at least worthy of debate.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

There just seems to be a bright line in here between the posters who believe the criminal justice system should primarily be a punishment mechanism and those who think rehabilitation of offenders and their subsequent reincorporation into society as the primary goal of that system.

If you're in the former camp, how much jail time is enough punishment for a particular crime seems to be really subjective and is obviously uninformed in nearly all cases - is ten years enough for this crime? How do you know? How do you know what ten years in prison is like, as opposed to two, having never been incarcerated yourself? And why not nine, or eleven?

If you're in the latter camp, long sentences are actually counterproductive, particularly for someone who's 20 years old. If our ultimate goal is for the convicted kid to be able to live a productive life after he's released, it seems like leaving him in jail for too long will actually make that outcome far less likely, both in terms of his development and the likelihood for recidivism as a result of just the culture that would have become ingrained in him by spending age 20-25 (for example) behind bars.

I don't think that punishment and rehabilitation are incompatible, in fact I think some amount of punishment is crucial to rehabilitation as a deterrent. But it also seems like there is a point where it's not just diminishing returns but actively counterproductive.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

None of these posts are talking about the side topic of rehabilitation vs. punishment as justice system concepts?

Really? Corsi's is especially hilarious. He writes that, I reply to it, and then he says 'hey stay on topic'. Uh, I was literally replying to you?

Did I say nobody was talking about it? No, I said few are talking about it and of those few, none of them are painting it as a black and white issue.

“I dunno, this topic just isn’t as black and white as everyone in here is insinuating.”

Who is everyone? The 3 people who have mentioned it who aren’t insinuating it’s black and white? lol. Weird.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yea, you are being very weird about this topic, I agree.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yea, you are being very weird about this topic, I agree.

Says the guy getting mad because people didn’t immediately jump at the chance to talk about child sex offenders with him lol

[EldrickOnIce]

When can we expect sentencing on the driver?
I am most interested in the initial sentence and then time served in his case.
867 actual days served (basically exactly 2.5 years) isn't much for being guilty of manslaughter in the death of a police officer. I will trust those making this decision know better than I do.

[Fuzz]

Penalty for Manslaughter

Unlike for murder, manslaughter does not carry an automatic sentence of life imprisonment. It remains, however, an option for the court.

If life imprisonment is ordered, there is no minimum time that is automatically required to be served before parole eligibility. Those sentenced to life imprisonment for manslaughter would be eligible for parole after serving 7 years. It may be possible for the court to delay parole eligibility for a life sentence for manslaughter up to 10 years under section 743.6 of the criminal code.

It is also common for manslaughter convictions to result in sentences other than life imprisonment. A 9 year sentence, which is not uncommon, would allow the offender to be paroled after serving 3 years of his sentence. If a firearm is involved in the offence, a minimum sentence of 4 years is required (parole eligible after serving 1/3rd of this).

https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm


Going to guess because he is underage it'll be in the 5-10 year range, but out sooner given time served.

[WhiteTiger]

The driver gets 12 years, with 4 years credit given for time served.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ence-1.6979546