[News] Leafs fire Babcock, hire Sheldon Keefe (Marlies) as replacement

[Erick Estrada]

I will give him props for admitting it because it would have been smarter not to comment and just say that it stays in the room or something like that. There are better ways to go about getting players to focus on work ethic without having to resort to embarrassing them in front of their peers. To be fair I'm sure plenty of coaches have done stuff like this and Babcock is simply one of the more successful ones.

[shadowz]

https://www.instagram.com/p/B5TOsTcB...d=6gk8oczxy1vc

[Ashasx]

The "trying to get Mitch to focus on work ethic" thing is nonsense. Sharing that list with the team doesn't do any of that. It's a bad excuse.

He was just trying to motivate the team using a really stupid method. It's no wonder a young team forced him out.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How the F does anyone (let alone a guy with his experience) think having a rookie call out guys on his team for poor work ethic is a good idea?

Focusing on role models my ass. Just ask Marner who his role models are on the team for work ethic. If he's wrong point out the right ones.

And the doubly evil thing was having him draft this list without letting him know he was going to share it with the players.

I just can't believe a guy that's paid millions to be a professional leader thought that was appropriate on any level.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The "trying to get Mitch to focus on work ethic" thing is nonsense. Sharing that list with the team doesn't do any of that. It's a bad excuse.

He was just trying to motivate the team using a really stupid method. It's no wonder a young team forced him out.

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

[Ashasx]

lol

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

As a fan I like that a hellofalot more than hoping defence will win you a championship.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?

That’s quite the appeal to authority on what is very clearly a terrible idea.

I might expect something like this from the Oilers, but not from a guy who was at one time heralded as the hands down best coach in the league.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

You're such a fossil with your opinions. Are you over 70 years old by any chance?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

Even if I forgave the appeal to authority aspect of this, this argument is pants on head stupid.

One does not have to be an NHL coach to know that forcing someone low on the totem pole to rank their co-workers by a very subjective trait and then tell the people at the bottom what he said is a tremendously bad idea for workplace unity.

There is no logical argument for claiming this works as a motivating exercise for Marner. And certainly it's hardly going to help the people he was manipulated into trashing either.

As far as attempted spin goes, Babcock's effort to try and explain that away was admirable. But it doesn't change the fact that he confirmed the story in the process. And that, in turn, helps build the case that the dude is a sociopath.

[burn_this_city]

Corral with the usual hot take divorced from common sense.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

Dubas certainly put the Leafs in a gross spot, with his top heavy contracts. He's one of the worst GM's in the league certainly.

Babcock though, is a vile human.

[atb]

Really hope Peters isn't pulling these types of mind games, not to speculate but it might explain some of what we're seeing this year.

[Manhattanboy]

I posted this in the other thread but obviously applies to Babcock:

What is about most coaches (particularly NHL/hockey generally) that the default position of their personality is ###hole?

Were they insecure as kids, bullied, unsuccessful? For the most part these guys strike me as inarticulate, certainly not very bright.

What is with the constant f-bomb dropping bully type (see for eg. the HBO series Road to the Winter Classic where Bruce Boudreau could not string a sentence together unless it was full of expletives)?

Does being a ####head motivate players to excel? Because if I had a boss like that I would be out of here before the end of the day.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I posted this in the other thread but obviously applies to Babcock:

What is about most coaches (particularly NHL/hockey generally) that the default position of their personality is ###hole?

Were they insecure as kids, bullied, unsuccessful? For the most part these guys strike me as inarticulate, certainly not very bright.

What is with the constant f-bomb dropping bully type (see for eg. the HBO series Road to the Winter Classic where Bruce Boudreau could not string a sentence together unless it was full of expletives)?

Does being a ####head motivate players to excel? Because if I had a boss like that I would be out of here before the end of the day.

Here is my response from the other thread, if you want to move the discussion here...

Maybe asshat is particularly a fit with hockey culture? It is also generally about results NOW and perhaps that is the personality type where you see the most short-term gain. And also why you have to fire them every 3 years. I am not sure. In general, where you have to herd 20-50 disparate individuals, perhaps you have to be an asshat to get everybody in line?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

At least Marner had the sense to list himself last.

That is actually very intelligent for an 18 year old to that. Really a team first move, he knew listing himself anywhere else would have created major issues within the locker room.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes and you would certainly know better than Mike Babcock on what methods to use for motivation. Your experience as an NHL coach is what again?


IMHO Babcock is the scapegoat here for a GM who has badly allocated the team's cap. Their fingers are crossed that offence will win a championship.

It was a piece of #### move. However, Babcock may have released the list only because Marner placed himself last on it... I imagine that probably impressed a lot of the guys.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by VilleN

It was a piece of #### move. However, Babcock may have released the list only because Marner placed himself last on it... I imagine that probably impressed a lot of the guys.

That's how I see it too. Not an intelligent move made by the coach, unless the list was shown but the author was left anonymous (dumb even then of course)

[landshark]

The idea of writing the list sounds like it came from one of 1000s of books about management (and these days, how to become the next Steve Jobs) and maybe it's not such a bad idea. Down here in the states, every new lower management guy reads this stuff. But to the then read aloud to the whole team - I imagine that Babs saw something there that he liked and wanted the rest of the team to hear some of it. BAD idea

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I posted this in the other thread but obviously applies to Babcock:

What is about most coaches (particularly NHL/hockey generally) that the default position of their personality is ###hole?

Were they insecure as kids, bullied, unsuccessful? For the most part these guys strike me as inarticulate, certainly not very bright.

What is with the constant f-bomb dropping bully type (see for eg. the HBO series Road to the Winter Classic where Bruce Boudreau could not string a sentence together unless it was full of expletives)?

Does being a ####head motivate players to excel? Because if I had a boss like that I would be out of here before the end of the day.

Certain types of sociopathy can help you perform mentally under extreme social pressure. People like that don't handle stress any better, they just don't experience as much stress because they genuinely just don't give a F about others. A massive ego also shields from performance stress. If you think you're Gods Gift to Hockey and think every problem is someone else's fault, you don't worry as much about messing up.

It's not just hockey. Cutthroat do-or-die environments generally favor people with either massive egos or anti-social tendencies, or both. They also very likely lead people to develop those kinds of tendencies as a coping mechanism.