What is middle class in Calgary?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Tyler

They also basically destroyed the earth too

To be fair, it was the Greatest Generation that did undersea and atmospheric nuclear testing like it was going out of style.

[Fuzz]

Let's not forget the worst boomer of them all, Trump. Way to go, boomers. That one is on you!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wow, have some empathy, guy.

Life has thrown me more than my fair share of curve balls and yes I do have empathy for others and their situations. Sometimes life isn't fair and you have to deal with it the best you can.

[nik-]

Well no one is telling millennials to lay down and give in to the sweet embrace of death here. At least you need to accept that the unfairness exists and that there are identifiable generation reasons as to why.

Too many are "durr entitlement", "durrrr, participation ribbon for everyone" like their generation were the ones ####ing storming Omaha.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Let's not forget the worst boomer of them all, Trump. Way to go, boomers. That one is on you!

Justin Trudeau is on you

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Dion

Justin Trudeau is on you

He’s GenX, we millennials equally reject all those who came before us.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Dion

Justin Trudeau is on you

I'll take 10 Trudeau's over 1 Trump.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

He’s GenX, we millennials equally reject all those who came before us.

Hey! We agree on something! How about that!

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Dion

Hey! We agree on something! How about that!

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Dion

It's a generational thing that's been going on forever. The young vs the old bickering/finger pointing is not something new and was going on when my parents were growing up. Be grateful for what you have, deal with what you have and move on.

As someone who's done well for themselves as well, and had significant support from their parents, I am grateful for what I have.

That being said, I worry about the major decay going on in society. I know plenty of people who were less fortunate than me, who slave away for sustenance. The cost of real estate and capital is so out line with wages, that most Canadians are racking up huge amounts of personal debt. Social mobility seems non-existent, as it's extremely difficult to start your own business or invest in property. People who got into the market 10+ years ago are making out like bandits.

There also seems to be a large amount Boomers who are relying entirely on CPP and home equity for their retirement. As a lawyer I see all sorts of tax returns and financial statements from people. I see Boomers borrowing from their home equity. They are betting on real estate constantly going up, which historically just does not happen. CPP seems fairly tapped out as well.

Overall, it seems like a lot of people are in denial about the state of the Canadian economy. We've refused to acknowledge the massive debt burden that most Canadians have and also the increasing inflation that it is eating away at the purchasing power of the average Canadian.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm not sure how a Boomer can describe a Millennial as "entitled", when Boomers are literally the most entitled generation in human history. When most people talk about Millennial entitlement, they are referring to Millennials fortunate enough to have wealthy Boomer parents who spend a lot of money.

Boomers overlook the structural changes to the economy and the higher costs of housing and education that Millennials face. So when they talk about Millennials being entitled, they mean the lifestyle that Millennials enjoyed growing up and into young adulthood is far more materially comfortable than they experienced themselves.

Boomers lucked into reaching adulthood when the economy was growing rapidly, post-secondary education was cheap and not even necessary for many good jobs, houses were cheap, and guaranteed pensions the norm. Their own parents paid for much of the infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads) they enjoyed, while they successfully lobbied politicians to cut taxes in their prime earning years and passed on huge government debt to their own kids.

And yet I doubt many Millennials would want to go back to 1978, buy one of those cheap bungalows when they're 23, start having kids immediately, and raise a family off a single income for the next 10 years. No airplane vacations unless you're a well-paid professional, everything from furniture to TVs to coffee makers cost way more (relative to income) than today, and going out to eat at a restaurant is a rare treat.

[Jason14h]

There are lots of good paying jobs for millennials out of school. They are in IT and trades.



They require a real skill and proper training. The real letdown is the high school and universities not educating/training people on what skills they need to advance their lives, but becoming another business looking to make a profit by pushing as many people through at inflated prices, which puts a large % even further behind then when they started.


And then when people with 'useless' education can't find a job? Go spend more and get a master's in the same field! So 8 years later you have debt, no assets, and no real skills.


The system is broken from the bottom up, but IMO it starts with the school system and what people are spending their time and real $$ on learning. University has become 4 years of paid babysitting for people who don't want to enter the job market and live the high school life for 4 more years off borrowed money.

[Regorium]

I definitely feel like Boomers have kinda pulled the ladder up behind them.

Go insane on low interest rates, and just as Millennials start having the means to also start taking advantage of cheap money, they start pulling it up behind them. Much harsher mortgage rules, 4x interest rate hikes (and another expected 3-4 more hikes).

It's decent enough policy if we look at it in a vacuum, but really it's just policy to fix the economy when the Boomers were bailed out by terrible policy 10 years ago.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And yet I doubt many Millennials would want to go back to 1978, buy one of those cheap bungalows when they're 23, start having kids immediately, and raise a family off a single income for the next 10 years. No airplane vacations unless you're a well-paid professional, everything from furniture to TVs to coffee makers cost way more (relative to income) than today, and going out to eat at a restaurant is a rare treat.

Or flip burgers at McDonalds for a $1.90 an hour like I did in HS. Then there's the double digit interest rates that came with those mortgages.

Look at the fast food industry of today and it's mostly staffed by TFW's doing work that ordinary Canadians won't do.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by blankall

As someone who's done well for themselves as well, and had significant support from their parents, I am grateful for what I have.

That being said, I worry about the major decay going on in society. I know plenty of people who were less fortunate than me, who slave away for sustenance. The cost of real estate and capital is so out line with wages, that most Canadians are racking up huge amounts of personal debt. Social mobility seems non-existent, as it's extremely difficult to start your own business or invest in property. People who got into the market 10+ years ago are making out like bandits.

There also seems to be a large amount Boomers who are relying entirely on CPP and home equity for their retirement. As a lawyer I see all sorts of tax returns and financial statements from people. I see Boomers borrowing from their home equity. They are betting on real estate constantly going up, which historically just does not happen. CPP seems fairly tapped out as well.

Overall, it seems like a lot of people are in denial about the state of the Canadian economy. We've refused to acknowledge the massive debt burden that most Canadians have and also the increasing inflation that it is eating away at the purchasing power of the average Canadian.

We Canadians are lucky, I have a friend in Seattle, biochem and math major but the only job he could find right out of uni is HR at Nordstroms at the moment. Has 70k USD in student loans paying $725 rent per month to split a place 4 ways with 3 friends, 45 minutes out of downtown.

How can anyone not drown under these conditions yet alone get ahead and you cant even bankrupt your way out of these crazy student loans. I know people who went to more prestigious schools looking at over 100k in student loan debt when they had partial scholarships. The economy is straight up broken in the USA right now for people growing up now.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

There are lots of good paying jobs for millennials out of school. They are in IT and trades.



They require a real skill and proper training. The real letdown is the high school and universities not educating/training people on what skills they need to advance their lives, but becoming another business looking to make a profit by pushing as many people through at inflated prices, which puts a large % even further behind then when they started.


And then when people with 'useless' education can't find a job? Go spend more and get a master's in the same field! So 8 years later you have debt, no assets, and no real skills.


The system is broken from the bottom up, but IMO it starts with the school system and what people are spending their time and real $$ on learning. University has become 4 years of paid babysitting for people who don't want to enter the job market and live the high school life for 4 more years off borrowed money.

When I attended SAIT in 1980 post secondary education was heavily subsidised by the govt and quite affordable for everyone. IIRC I paid somewhere around $400 for the year to study business admin. Now it's gone a 180 degrees in the opposite direction where post secondary education has become too expensive for many. There needs to be a proper balance.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Dan02

We Canadians are lucky, I have a friend in Seattle, biochem and math major but the only job he could find right out of uni is HR at Nordstroms at the moment. Has 70k USD in student loans paying $725 rent per month to split a place 4 ways with 3 friends, 45 minutes out of downtown.

How can anyone not drown under these conditions yet alone get ahead and you cant even bankrupt your way out of these crazy student loans. I know people who went to more prestigious schools looking at over 100k in student loan debt when they had partial scholarships. The economy is straight up broken in the USA right now for people growing up now.

I mean I get it... But did you friend have a plan with their degree? Or did they go to school without a plan and now can't get a job? Did they research what a biochem and math degree can do for them? Can they move somewhere else and work using their degree?

[81MC]

I wonder about that too. If you are just blindly paying loads of money and time to get a degree because it interests you, all the more power to you. But it’s hard to sympathize with the hoardes of degree holders who think because they spent money on something it must be valuable.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I mean I get it... But did you friend have a plan with their degree? Or did they go to school without a plan and now can't get a job? Did they research what a biochem and math degree can do for them? Can they move somewhere else and work using their degree?

When they started sure, but life doesn't always go to plan.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my current job has nothing to do with what i went to school for.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

There are lots of good paying jobs for millennials out of school. They are in IT and trades.



They require a real skill and proper training. The real letdown is the high school and universities not educating/training people on what skills they need to advance their lives, but becoming another business looking to make a profit by pushing as many people through at inflated prices, which puts a large % even further behind then when they started.


And then when people with 'useless' education can't find a job? Go spend more and get a master's in the same field! So 8 years later you have debt, no assets, and no real skills.


The system is broken from the bottom up, but IMO it starts with the school system and what people are spending their time and real $$ on learning. University has become 4 years of paid babysitting for people who don't want to enter the job market and live the high school life for 4 more years off borrowed money.

A major issue is that we do not have a properly centralized education system.

In most European countries the government controls how many spots there are in each program, and creates them in proportion to economic needs.

Most governments in Europe also divert kids, that are clearly not going to be academics, in to trades programs during high school.

In Canada, we put way too much emphasis on University as a growing experience, when should be a directed study program towards a career. We end up with armies of students graduating from useless arts programs and have to import tradespeople. The Canadian system needs to adjust the way they look at trades and post-secondary programs.