[PGT] Flames beat Coyotes 2-1 in OT

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Forget the salary then. My question is:

Is Tkachuk not playing the way one might have expected Brouwer to when he was acquired?

Not quite. Tkachuk has a pest/rat element to him that Brouwer isn't known for. Both are seen as bigger physical wingers who can score goals but that's probably the extent of the comparisons.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is either way. That Brouwer's signing is a waste because Tkachuk makes him expendable based on 26 games?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dying4acup

Forget the salary then. My question is:

Is Tkachuk not playing the way one might have expected Brouwer to when he was acquired?

No, Tkachuk is playing like a two-way top six, maybe even top line NHL forward. He's playing more like Lucic or Okposo would have been expected to.

[djsFlames]

Just as a more accurate reflection of where the Flames are at, here are the adjusted standings, assuming (optimistically) that all the teams around them would go .500 in their games in hand:

Tie breakers are based on current ROWs



Chicago 18-9-3 - 39 pts
St. Louis 16-9-5 - 37 pts
Minnesota 15-10-5 - 35 pts
---
San Jose 17-12-1 - 35 pts
Anaheim 14-10-6 - 34 pts
Edmonton 14-11-5 - 33 pts
---
Calgary 15-13-2 - 32 pts
Nashville 14-12-4 - 32 pts
---
Los Angeles 15-13-2 - 32 pts
Dallas 12-12-6 - 30 pts
Winnipeg 13-14-3 - 29 pts
Vancouver 13-14-3 - 29 pts
Colorado 12-16-2 - 26 pts
Arizona 10-15-5 - 25 pts



So the Flames are for all intents and purposes a wildcard team now, give or take a point, accounting for the games in hand. They're getting there, but still some work to do to start to feel comfortable about the standings.

I will continue to post these adjusted standings after each win.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by timbit

I wonder if Ricardowd still think the Flames could put Hamilton on waivers and he wouldn't be claimed.

Yikes!

That's up there with his suggestion that Lee Stempniak was going from the Flames to out of the NHL a couple years ago...

and that the Frolik signing was useless.

He's consistent, I'll give him that.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Just as a more accurate reflection of where the Flames are at, here are the adjusted standings, assuming (optimistically) that all the teams around them would go .500 in their games in hand:

Tie breakers are based on current ROWs



Chicago 18-9-3 - 39 pts
St. Louis 16-9-5 - 37 pts
Minnesota 15-10-5 - 35 pts
---
San Jose 17-12-1 - 35 pts
Anaheim 14-10-6 - 34 pts
Edmonton 14-11-5 - 33 pts
---
Calgary 15-13-2 - 32 pts
Nashville 14-12-4 - 32 pts
---
Los Angeles 15-13-2 - 32 pts
Dallas 12-12-6 - 30 pts
Winnipeg 13-14-3 - 29 pts
Vancouver 13-14-3 - 29 pts
Colorado 12-16-2 - 26 pts
Arizona 10-15-5 - 25 pts



So the Flames are for all intents and purposes a wildcard team now, give or take a point, accounting for the games in hand. They're getting there, but still some work to do to start to feel comfortable about the standings.

I will continue to post these adjusted standings after each win.

Nice thought but not reality.
Pretty sure NHL.com are on top of things.

Your giving the sharks more points then they have currently on the assumption they will earn those points which they haven't yet. Your adjusted standings makes alot of assumptions.
How does that make sense your basing standings on 30 GP for every team. Sj has only played 26 so your literally playing psychic for the next 4 games for them. It is just one example but your adjusted standings are as useful as looking at todays horoscopes.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Nice thought but not reality.
Pretty sure NHL.com are on top of things.

Your giving the sharks more points then they have currently on the assumption they will earn those points which they haven't yet. Your adjusted standings makes alot of assumptions.

Um

Yes. I'm posting the standing as if all the teams in the west were at 30 games played, assuming that all teams with games in hand go .500 in those game.

So because the Sharks (for example) have 3 games in hand, I added 1-1-1 to their record to bring them to 30 games played, assuming a .500 record.
I did the same with all western teams. Calgary and Winnipeg's records don't change as they are already at 30gp.

The whole thing is based on a consistent assumption for all teams. Some will in reality be above .500 in those games, some below. So just call it an "average" prediction.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Um

Yes. I'm posting the standing as if all the teams in the west were at 30 games played, assuming that all teams with games in hand go .500 in those game.

So because the Sharks (for example) have 3 games in hand, I added 1-1-1 to their record to bring them to 30 games played, assuming a .500 record.

I did the same with all western teams. Calgary and Winnipeg's records don't change as they are already at 30gp.

Ya like I said in my post before this one. It is totally useless like going to a physic or believing in horoscopes. Its pulling numbers out your ass.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Ya like I said in my post before this one. It is totally useless like going to a physic or believing in horoscopes. Its pulling numbers out your ass.

Well good thing that this is the right place to do such things.

Anything else to contribute that's not basically stating "Hey, your prediction is just a prediction. That's dumb" ?

[calgaryblood]

Garnet Hathaway is a beauty. If you haven't listened to his interview after the game, it's on the Flames app.

You can tell he is an intelligent kid and knows his role. Love watching him play.

[calgaryblood]

Also, why was the picture so bad tonight? It's never real HD but tonight was just putrid.

Even the Flames app used the American feed for their highlights. Was a much better and crisp picture.

It's 2016, can't we get real HD if the damn Arizona Coyotes with no fans can get it?

edit: I meant the 6 minute condensed game uses the Arizona network. The highlights use the crappy SN feed.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

They were above .500 two games ago. 13-13-2 is 28 points in 28 games.

28/28=1.000. Kids.

Wins/(games played) is the important 0.500 for the NHL point structure, and therefore the right one to talk about, because it approximates the pace required to make the playoffs and because it reflects a league-average performance.

Originally Posted by Eric

Not this argument again

The argument will stop when the "points percentage" people realize they're wrong.

Save
Save

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by SebC

28/28=1.000. Kids.

Wins/(games played) is the important 0.500, and therefore the right one, because it approximates the pace required to make the playoffs and because it reflects a league-average performance.



The argument will stop when the "points percentage" people realize they're wrong.

Save

You're wrong. The media and everyone in the NHL uses the points percentage as the deciding factor for a team being .500.

Even the damn coach who coaches the Calgary Flames said "we are finally at .500 when they won to make themselves 13-13-2.

You can use all the fancy numbers you want and call us kids but you're wrong and all NHL teams consider point percentage for whether they're .500 or not.

[calgaryblood]

And you say only wins/games played matters? I'd say points is what matters since that's how you make the playoffs not with wins.

Last year the Flames could have won 7 games and lost 75 in O.T and still made the playoffs.

7-0-75 according to you puts them 75 games under .500. It doesn't approximate nothing. The Wild were 38-44 according to your math and they still made the playoffs.

[AC]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Also, why was the picture so bad tonight? It's never real HD but tonight was just putrid.

Even the Flames app used the American feed for their highlights. Was a much better and crisp picture.

It's 2016, can't we get real HD if the damn Arizona Coyotes with no fans can get it?

edit: I meant the 6 minute condensed game uses the Arizona network. The highlights use the crappy SN feed.

From what I've seen, Sportsnet uses the same feeds as the other broadcast now. Except for a few special slow-mo cameras Sportsnet doesn't have.

Here's the same live frame from both broadcasts of the Gio goal:
http://i.imgur.com/r5AQ3mW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Pvbisr5.jpg

The differences are pretty small for most games. The FSN feed has a pinker tone to it which makes the reds look a little better but also makes the whites look pink, but the sharpness looks pretty similar in both.

The baffling choice I don't get is what Arizona has done to its behind-the-net cameras. Look at this badly saturated psychedelic mess:

[dying4acup]

I refer to them as "fake .500 - 13-13-2" and "real .500 - 15-13-2"

50% of teams are above real .500, while 50% of teams are below real .500(not counting those teams that sit right on real .500)

Fake .500 means that you can tell your fans you are competitive.

Real .500 means that you might be a playoff team at the end of the year.

Real .500 is more significant to me.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by the2bears

This is weak, as you assign an arbitrary significance to an unrelated number and come to the conclusion it means something. I could just as easily say .550 is more significant.

The Oilers record in their last 3 is OTL, OTL, L

The Oilers have lost 3 in a row?

How you answer this question defines your definition of .500

Thr NHL has their streak a 1 L. The Score app at 3 L.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

No, Tkachuk is playing like a two-way top six, maybe even top line NHL forward. He's playing more like Lucic or Okposo would have been expected to.

So then, what was the expectation for Brouwer?

Honestly I'm not down on Brouwer, I'm more impressed by Tkachuk.

[Caged Great]

Brouwer is doing what I've been expecting him to do, which is be a 2nd/3rd line tweener RW. It's the same thing with Frolik. The duo as a pair make an effective middle six RW pair. The Flames lack a legit 1st line RW, and that is not Brouwer or Chiasson or anyone else's fault that they are struggling when placed in that position. They are not that good offensively, and that is okay. They are getting paid 4.3 and 4.5 each, which is the going rate for decent 2nd/3rd line wingers. If they were better offensively, they'd be getting 5.5-6.5 instead.

Tkachuk has the potential to be a 1st line 70 point pain in the butt type player like Perry (although I do not think he has the ability to score 50 like Perry has). They are completely different classes of player. Tkachuk has that high end skill that the other two lack. While he is inconsistent, that is largely due to his inexperience thus far and even then he has been noticeable most games by being a pain in the butt on most shifts. He and Gaudreau are the two most singularly skilled offensive forwards on the team.

It would be like complaining that Glencross wasn't as good as Iginla. While elements of their game were similar (High end shot, physicality) the talent levels were not.

[heep223]

I still think Ferland has the ability to play top line RW.

[Geeoff]

A team with 82 points is more likely to be in the draft lottery than the playoffs. .500 point % is not a useful marker for anything. On the other hand, 41 wins gives you a decent shot at the playoffs. More than half of the teams end up with a .500 point% because points are unevenly distributed.

Colorado and Montreal both had 82 points last season and drafted 9th and 10th overall.