[PGT] Flames lose 4-2 as special teams fail them yet again

[5by5]

Dineen, Oates and Gelinas were my picks. What Dineen did with the womens team in the Olympics checked all the boxes for me. Oates is deemed to be a PP specialist and the team could use some help here.

I cant help but draw a parallels between the 3 headed goalie fiasco and this 3 headed asst coaching scenerio. I agree with posters calling for Cameron and Sigalet to be let go.

Its going to be a long haul as I cant see BT having 3 head coaches on the payroll this season. This team has too many cooks in upper mgmt and on the bench.

[ResAlien]

Bennett looks way out of his depth at centre. Maybe he's better served as a winger, move Backlund up a line, bring up Jankowski?

[CroFlames]

I disagree that the team is not built properly. Did anyone honestly go into this season saying "Gee whiz guys, this team is just completely built the wrong way. What a bad GM". No.

Everyone, including myself thought that this team was built properly, with manageable shortfalls at RW. You had a really good 1C, 2C, 3C and even 4C. That is how you build your forward group; around Cs. Plus an emerging star LW.

Everyone thought our top 3 D-men were awesome, and that the bottom pair with Engelland was more than adequate.

The GM then traded for two goalies, and one of them could be considered a bonafide #1.


Tell me again how the team was built wrong? Wrong coaches? Perhaps. Wrong players? Perhaps, but while the team was being built, everyone agreed it was built right. This is a good team playing way below expectations.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Bennett looks way out of his depth at centre. Maybe he's better served as a winger, move Backlund up a line, bring up Jankowski?

This is called developing a player. I have no issue with him struggling to learn how to play center. This is called investing in our future. Would he contibute more on the wing? Absolutely! However think of our center depth in 4 tears if Bennett is a winger. Playing against Kopitar, Getzlaf etc. is the best learning experience this guy can have. Of course it would be nice to get more production out of Bennett, but this is not why we are losing.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by tkflames

This is called developing a player. I have no issue with him struggling to learn how to play center. This is called investing in our future. Would he contibute more on the wing? Absolutely! However think of our center depth in 4 tears if Bennett is a winger. Playing against Kopitar, Getzlaf etc. is the best learning experience this guy can have. Of course it would be nice to get more production out of Bennett, but this is not why we are losing.

Yes I understand that but right now all he's developing into is a penalty prone player who tries too many junior moves. In hindsight Montreal's plan of playing galchenyuk on the wing for a few years before moving him back to centre looks to be paying off quite well.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Yes I understand that but right now all he's developing into is a penalty prone player who tries too many junior moves. In hindsight Montreal's plan of playing galchenyuk on the wing for a few years before moving him back to centre looks to be paying off quite well.

Fair point, but we will have to disagree on this one. I like the progression that I am seeing in Bennett's game as a center and the penalty issues in my opinion have been overblown at the start of the season when he was trying to do too much. He needs to learn to use his linemates more effectively and his linemates need to be more effective.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Bennett looks way out of his depth at centre. Maybe he's better served as a winger, move Backlund up a line, bring up Jankowski?

I was crapped on for suggesting this earlier in the season. Look at the second goal, I've been saying all year Bennett is playing like a winger going way too deep in the zone and he even throws a useless hit that put him out of position. The middle of the ice was wide open because Bennett was out of position again.

Even great players like Stamkos spent a lot of time at wing early in their career so they can slowly learn the positioning.

[Fischy13]

Who is out there right now to coach... you can't poach assistants mid season iirc.

[FlatLandFlamesFan]

Well despite the overwhelming negativity in here .
I'm seeing progress , no it is not happening quickly enough.
Meh maybe I'm better served staying away from CP for a while ,been rather toxic since this summer.

[Aarongavey]

It is definitely a process watching the process.

Maybe the Flames fire GG and hire his doppelganger Dallas Eakins?

[polak]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

It's the wrong thing to do. If anyone big gets moved, it has to be Gio. That contract should be moved before it's too late, and while we can still get good value. Part of the problem in the past here has been holding onto veterans to keep us in win-now mode when in reality, that was just a misguided dream. Trade Gio, and if Burns and Shatternkirk go UFA, go big game huntin'.

Yeah, I know it's reactionary and silly, but at some point reality has to set in and we have to realize we aren't as close as we'd hoped. We've got a lot of great young parts - but we need more.

Don't think you're going to get many takers with that god awful contract and the way he's playing. Zero reason to believe 33 year old Gio is going to improve over regressing. But you're right, doing it asap is the best bet. If he plays poorly all year then our only shot will exposing him i the draft.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by 5by5

Its going to be a long haul as I cant see BT having 3 head coaches on the payroll this season. This team has too many cooks in upper mgmt and on the bench.

Who goes out the door at the top? Treliving or Burke?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Meanwhile in Minnesota, Boudreau's Wild lead the league in PK% and GA/G, and are 6th in the league in GF/G.

Flames are at or are rapidly approaching dead last for GA/G, PP%, and PK%, and are bottom 10 in GF/G. Yet this guy never even got an interview.

Brad let this team down big time with his coaching blunder. Strike two after last year's 3-headed goaltending disaster.

If I'm one of the Flames owners my confidence in the GM is shaken after seeing Brad poorly handle the coaching situation. Even Eric Francis realized that Boudreau made too much sense and Brad didn't even pick up the phone to contact the agent. Unless ownership wanted to cheap out on paying another coach there's not a single excuse he could make that would justify not even kicking the tires of a top 5 winning percentage head coach.

[polak]

Im mostly concerned that Treliving has built a team that fits Hartley's system, but then he decided (correctly) that his system doesn't work so now the Flames are trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Most concerning is our offensively minded defensemen no longer being allowed to play that way. Good thing we have them locked up for 5 - 6 years.

Hamilton extension and Gio extension might have been Trelivings worst moves to date. Funny how that turned out after all of that hype.

One thing is for sure, any player moved out of this team is going to be pumped!

[Ashasx]

come on. Hamilton was widely regarded as a top pairing defenceman before we even traded for him, and his production and advanced stats backed that up.

Things are really #### right now, but Hamilton also hasn't been on this team since it's been any good. The team is bad, and I don't think Dougie is the first one to blame (or even close)

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I know we shouldn't be making rash decisions, but I really think one of Monahan or Hamilton is gone by the end of the the month.

If they do that it'll be the Marc Savard situation all over again. Button traded Savard b cause he wouldn't play Gilbert's system. Traded him for a bag of pucks only to come to the realization later that Gilbert was the problem. If they trade any of the young core before firing the crap coaches they hired I may be done with this team.

[automaton 3]

Trading players that are underperforming due to coaching is exactly what got us into the Savard-Gilbert train wreck.

Savard was traded for nothing and Gilbert was still fired.

[JiriHrdina]

People need to pump the brakes a bit here.
The Savard situation and what is happening right now have almost nothing in common.
Savard was openly disagreeing with and undermining the coach. So in addition to an under-performing team, you also had that broader issue.
You have none of that element right now in place.
To say that Savard was traded just for "underperforming" is completely ignoring the real reasons he was dealt.

[Enoch Root]

Such a frustrating team to watch. It was so unbelievably predictable that, while watching their strong start, outshooting the Stars 8-1, that they wouldn't score and that eventually the stars would head the other way, get one chance, and they would be down 1-0.

Felt bad calling it, because I don't want to go to the games to be negative, but it was a virtual certainty.

Some positives:
Johnny is definitely coming around (even though I counted 7 times he gave the puck away in the 1st period).
Kulak and Engelland are playing really well.
Backlund and Frolik continue to roll along, despite the woes of the team
And for the first couple penalties at least, the PK looked great.

On the other hand...
Jokipakka was a train wreck
Brodie is not working on the PP
Speaking of the PP....
And I'll say it: Elliott simply wasn't good enough last night.

Were the goals his fault? No, they were defensive breakdowns. But that first one - I was right behind the shooter where I sit, and there was so much open net to shoot at it was ridiculous.

I don't remember who it was that hit the crossbar but same thing - tons of open net. The Flames just got lucky on that one.

Even more than wanting Cameron gone, I want Sigalet gone. Have for a long , long time. Was REALLY hoping they could convince Sean Burke to join the organization. Oh well... regardless, please get rid of Sigalet.

[Bingo]

I'm glad the Flames have a management group that will act much more calm than the fan base from what I'm reading.

I wasn't so sure of that when Feaster was around, and we certainly saw what happens when a GM freaks out when Phaneuf and Jokinen were traded by Sutter in that odd week.

These guys are professional enough to a) not question the team the assembled and b) not question the coach they just hired

Spinning organizations panic and make stupid moves, solid organizations stick to it and see it through.