2 year old boy snatched by alligator at Disney World

[Coach]

Originally Posted by blankall

I don't think this is true. If you add up the number of bear/cougar attacks in Canada and then then take into account 20 million people live in Florida alone, the number of attacks wouldn't be that different. There have been 2 fatal bear attacks in Alberta alone over the last couple of years.

Possibly, but that generally only happens when you are entering their territory. The territory of gators in Florida is, well, everywhere. Cities, lagoons, swamps, whatever. It's pretty rare to see bears on your way to work in Calgary. It's pretty common to see gators just about anywhere in Florida.

Also, a bear attack will almost always be fatal. A small gator, even a bigger one, attacking a grown human is probably not in most cases. How many people do you think get bit or even lunged at by a gator in Florida?

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

haha. That's all you understood of that entire post? Seriously?

I was too busy wrestling a bear

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yes, but I can swim, and so I have already taken steps to protect myself from drowning as much as possible. I can't swim faster than a shark though. Are you telling me you would enter water in Australia with signs saying "no swimming"? Maybe it's my own fear but I would not. And if I did, I would certainly be as vigilant as possible and definitely be very uncomfortable. What if a local told you they are shark infested waters? The likelihood of an attack is still pretty minimal. Would you go in? Not even saying you shouldn't be, but you'd have more guts than me, that's for sure.



As I said, they should certainly have more appropriate signage posted at the beach if there is any risk of gator attacks, especially because it's a tourist spot. And again, as I said, I really don't blame the parents at all. But to think that a "no swimming" sign by a body of water in Florida doesn't instantly make you think of gators, I dunno, to me it seems disingenuous. Saying so isn't putting blame on the parents. Tourist naivety about the dangers there is something Disney should be doing it's most to protect against.

If an Australian beach said no swimming I would assume rip tides or maybe jelly fish but not shark. Sharks are not a real risk. Because rip tides are actually dangerous.

I would swim in "Shark infested waters" (that's called the ocean) if there was no specific shark sightings in the area that elevated the risk above 0.

If the gators are really a threat what is the difference from being where the chairs are around the lagoon and being in ankle deep water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

So the number of children (under 12) dying of alligator attacks in Florida is 5 in the last 50 years. Drowning average 1.8 / 100,000 people per year.

Its almost negligent to be concerned about alligators as a threat as any time spent contemplating the risk of alligators is better spent on other real risks that could be present.

Why can't people accept this as a tragedy

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

You're friends are full of it or oblivious to their surroundings.There's no way anyone spends any amount amount of time in Florida and doesnt see an alligator.

Lol. Sure whatever you say.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Possibly, but that generally only happens when you are entering their territory. The territory of gators in Florida is, well, everywhere. Cities, lagoons, swamps, whatever. It's pretty rare to see bears on your way to work in Calgary. It's pretty common to see gators just about anywhere in Florida.

Also, a bear attack will almost always be fatal. A small gator, even a bigger one, attacking a grown human is probably not in most cases. How many people do you think get bit or even lunged at by a gator in Florida?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ater/85916280/

Here's a list of alligator bites. The numbers aren't that high when in the context of 20 million people.

A bear attack is also not almost always fatal. Most attacks are by Black Bears, and according to this site only 5-10% of all attacks are "serious":

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c.../bear-attacks/

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by blankall

A bear attack is also not almost always fatal. Most attacks are by Black Bears, and according to this site only 5-10% of all attacks are "serious":

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c.../bear-attacks/

Looks like they're using 30-year-old data though, would love to see something current.

In the 2010s there have been 7 fatal black bear attacks and 10 fatal grizzly attacks. Not sure how that correlates with total number of attacks though but 5-10% serious/fatality rate seems extremely low.

[DownhillGoat]

Nm.

[GGG]

You'd have to define attack though. Does a bluff charge count? Does the bear snorting and pawing at the dirt count. Is it only when the bear physically contacts a person?

Outside of predatory black bears the intent of a bear attack isn't to kill if that matters.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by GGG

You'd have to define attack though. Does a bluff charge count? Does the bear snorting and pawing at the dirt count. Is it only when the bear physically contacts a person?

Data I recall differed between encounters and attacks, and an attack was graded on 3 levels of severity, minor (cuts, scrapes), major (torn/broken limbs, organs, etc), and fatal. I'd have to dig up the video.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GGG

If an Australian beach said no swimming I would assume rip tides or maybe jelly fish but not shark. Sharks are not a real risk. Because rip tides are actually dangerous.

I would swim in "Shark infested waters" (that's called the ocean) if there was no specific shark sightings in the area that elevated the risk above 0.

If the gators are really a threat what is the difference from being where the chairs are around the lagoon and being in ankle deep water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

So the number of children (under 12) dying of alligator attacks in Florida is 5 in the last 50 years. Drowning average 1.8 / 100,000 people per year.

Its almost negligent to be concerned about alligators as a threat as any time spent contemplating the risk of alligators is better spent on other real risks that could be present.

Why can't people accept this as a tragedy

You may refer to the first line of my first post for that.

So, would you enter water that had a sign specifically telling you not to? What's the rate for people being attacked (ie, not necessarily dying and not just children) by alligators?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Looks like they're using 30-year-old data though, would love to see something current.

In the 2010s there have been 7 fatal black bear attacks and 10 fatal grizzly attacks. Not sure how that correlates with total number of attacks though but 5-10% serious/fatality rate seems extremely low.

I can't find any current data on attacks, just serious injuries and fatalities. I'd be interested to see the data too. Although it would only take 3-4 attacks in Alberta every year to make the odds of getting attacked by a bear in Alberta greater than the odds of getting attacked by an alligator in Florida. Plus you have cougars on top of that.

As for the 5-10% rate, my guess is most black bear (which is the far more common form of bear) attacks do not end in fatalities. I know several people in North Vancouver who've had runs in with black bears on their property.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You may refer to the first line of my first post for that.

So, would you enter water that had a sign specifically telling you not to? What's the rate for people being attacked (ie, not necessarily dying and not just children) being attacked (bitten, charged at) by alligators?

A general "Do Not Swim" sign is like a "Keep Off Grass" sign. Good to obey, but no consequences if you ignore. The sign in no way reflected the danger of going near the water.

[nik-]

I would be like a minefield having a "Keep off the Grass" sign.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by MattyC

You may refer to the first line of my first post for that.

So, would you enter water that had a sign specifically telling you not to? What's the rate for people being attacked (ie, not necessarily dying and not just children) being attacked (bitten, charged at) by alligators?

This article contains numbers for reported alligator attacks over the last few years:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ater/85916280/

This is in a state of 20 million people.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Sliver

A general "Do Not Swim" sign is like a "Keep Off Grass" sign. Good to obey, but no consequences if you ignore. The sign in no way reflected the danger of going near the water.

I completely agree and have said as such multiple times. I just think there are people here being disingenuous about what that sign would mean to them in a place like Florida.

"Keep out of water" sign on a Calgary Golf Course is a lame attempt to keep people from swimming for balls. On a course in Florida it probably means something completely different.

I'm not saying that the parents are at fault for not acknowledging the sign and recognizing its danger. But I don't think it's crazy to also say "Well, yeah, it's Florida, there are dangerous things in the water."

It's a tragedy in every way shape and form, but that doesn't mean there weren't ways to prevent it. One of those ways would be Disney posting more appropriate signs. Another way would have been the parents obeying the sign that was already there. I don't think that's putting blame on them, it's just a reality.

Originally Posted by nik-

I would be like a minefield having a "Keep off the Grass" sign.

LOL is it? Most of people's problem in here is that the risk of an alligator attack isn't even statistically relevant enough to think about. I'm guessing the likelihood of stepping on a mine in a minefield is much greater, and thus would warrant a much harsher sign.

[nik-]

A good way to prevent it might have been to have a sign saying why you shouldn't go into the water instead of "Generic warning sign model 1C"

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MattyC

LOL is it? Most of people's problem in here is that the risk of an alligator attack isn't even statistically relevant enough to think about. I'm guessing the likelihood of stepping on a mine in a minefield is much greater, and thus would warrant a much harsher sign.

A: I was being obviously facetious.

B: the bolded is the point

[Coach]

Is there a place where I argued against a more detailed sign of the dangers of going into the water?

Actually, yeah, right in that post it's first thing I say could help prevent something like this. that doesn't mean that the parents familiarizing themselves with where they were going isn't also a method that could have helped.

And, once again, they doesn't lay blame at the feet of really anyone. It's an accident. Animal attacks happen are impossible to predict unless your poking an alligator in the eye with a stick. And even then, it might a koala that attacks instead.

[nik-]

And then proceeded to go down the "I'm not saying it's the parents ... but they should have done better" road.

[oilyfan]

I am sure there a lot of sloughs and small ponds in Nebraska that have "Do Not Swim" signs all over the place. These signs would not have raised concern in a lot of parents minds about the dangers of alligators on a private resort in Florida. This is a freak tragic accident.