[Rumour] G.Gulutzan front-runner for Flames HC - UPD: Hasn't been officially offered contract

[Coach]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

What's the criteria factor for a player, in becoming a successful coach. You've stated there's relevance, you just haven't correlated it.

I wonder who the best player is that went on to become the best coach. It seems pretty common that good coaches come from people who were, at best, 3rd liners.

[868904]

[QUOTE=Hot_Flatus;5790802]Not to defend him as I've never been a big fan, but Hartley was dealt a pretty bad hand by the GM going into the season. Treliving has made some errors and that goalie situation was a big one. QUOTE]

This is pretty much the hill that the Treliving haters will die on: the 3 headed goalie monster.

It's been argued to death on this board. The haters blame it all on Treliving. Others like me, see that it was the same goalies as the year before that found success and are willing to give Treliving a pass for prioritizing acquiring a potential franchise defenceman instead of a goalie.

I still don't see how the goalie situation was Treliving's fault. It worked the year before, so why pay a premium to upgrade? Treliving also isn't in there everyday with the goalies, that's Hartley, it was his job to handle the egos and massage them to keep them happy and feeling good about themselves. Hartley failed to manage the goalies.

On top of that failure to manage the goalies, Hartley employed an asinine system of stretch passes and a system that constantly gave the puck away to the opposition. Everyone outside of Calgary saw how flawed the system was even during the successful 2014-2015 season.

Could Treliving have given Hartley another year for his flukey 2014-2015 season? Yeah maybe, but Treliving is about winning here, he's not about rewarding someone for past success. He told Hartley what he saw were problems with the team, and Hartley could not address these issues and the team failed. Hartley was fired for just cause, he failed his job, it's that simple. Move on already.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You can't look at it in terms of being analytical. The court of public opinion is almost always based on panache. The only rational reason anyone would be upset with this hire, which I'm not, is because it took an incredibly long time to complete and ended up where it could have if completed on day one. People inherently begin to expect big things when processes such as this take much longer than the norm. Hence a blah hire.

This is a round about way of saying we (as fans) are not privy to any in depth details so it's perfectly okay to be underwhelmed based on the tiny amount of information available.

I don't subscribe to that.

Also, for all we know he was a leading candidate from the outset but the due diligence included speaking with someone who wasn't available until a week or two ago.

I have no doubt it was a thorough, exhaustive process with we as fans being privvy to less than 90% of the information and details.

There simply isn't enough information to make a fair assessment / judgement on the majority of names that are out there right now. Outside of a long tenured NHL head coach, we really have no idea about the majority of traits the final candidates possess. Thus any judgement at this point in time is extremely premature and disingenuous.

[canflip_101]

Originally Posted by Cinephile

The mob mentality that some posters possess is downright pitiful and degrades the quality of this forum.

In SGs original post he pointed out his concerns with the rumoured hiring of Gulutzan and correlated it to his performance (record) as an NHL coach. Isn't that a reasonable justification? If you are hiring an employee (which the management is) you're damn well going to look at his resume and see what he has accomplished. I'm not agreeing with SG and I haven't read enough of his posts to know whether or not he has an unfounded disdain for Treliving but in this particular instance I can see where his concerns stem from.

This is a forum people. Expect (dare I say welcome) a difference of opinion.

In the end our opinions on Calgary puck mean nothing, as we are not the hockey operations department. Everyone has their GM strategies whether it be on here, NHL video games or fantasy hockey. Treliving is just doing his job in this hiring process and if the rumours are true and Brad thinks this guy is the coach we need in the organization, we will have to accept his decision and form new opinions from a blank 0 wins, 0 losses state.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Without my opinion just NHL only facts...

Why should we restrict our evaluation of these candidates to just what has occurred in the NHL? I'm not convinced at all that that is the most accurate measure of their respective qualifications for the job of the Calgary Flames head coach.

Again not based on opinion these are Mullers stats.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?report...tg&aggregate=0

As has already been pointed out, Muller's career as a NHL player is completely irrelevant. And moreover, how much weight should we attribute to an assistant coach for team performances and results? You seem to think that amounts to quite a bit. Can you explain why? Can you provide some explanation more specifically for what each of Gulutzen and Muller contributed to the success or disappointment of each of their respective teams?

If not, then why should we take any of this seriously?

Is it fair to say sports like many careers is often measured fairly or not by what have you done lately?

Occasionally, and with measure. But in this instance, you need to first show what it is specifically that Muller and Gulutzen have specifically done or failed to do. You have not managed to do that much.

Be specific, and I might agree that your opinion is justified. But based on what you have posted here I must continue to conclude that your reaction is not rational.

[mikephoen]

It's been a while since I've seen Textcritic wade in and completely dismantle someone's argument. I've missed it!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

This is a round about way of saying we (as fans) are not privy to any in depth details so it's perfectly okay to be underwhelmed based on the tiny amount of information available.

I don't subscribe to that.

Also, for all we know he was a leading candidate from the outset but the due diligence included speaking with someone who wasn't available until a week or two ago.

I have no doubt it was a thorough, exhaustive process with we as fans being privvy to less than 90% of the information and details.

There simply isn't enough information to make a fair assessment / judgement on the majority of names that are out there right now. Outside of a long tenured NHL head coach, we really have no idea about the majority of traits the final candidates possess. Thus any judgement at this point in time is extremely premature and disingenuous.

I don't think you get the context of that post at all....I have no issue with the prospective hire. You already have your back so far up against the wall with anything even remotely left of center that you missed the entire point.

You're right, this was an exhaustive search. Clearly. What I am getting at is that no one should be surprised by the odd fan not liking this move. People get emotional when news like this breaks and often have illusions of grandeur. Even more surprising to me would be seeing someone thrilled by it at the same time. We've been down the youngish, work with him type of coach path a few times with very mixed results. Is this any different than your round about way of saying not to pass judgement yet?

If a fan is completely disgusted with this move that is their own prerogative. I don't really have any method in mind where I can personally lean one way or the other until the coach at least starts to show his cards later this summer.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Your argument

Did you really base most of your argument on his playing careers? You do know how Gretzky's coaching career turned out? Ken Hitchcock for example never played an NHL game. So toss playing careers out the window because it doesn't matter how they were as players.

You're just making points to fit your argument. Like the Blues lost to Wild, who lost to Hawks and then Hawks won the cup. Like really?

You're comparing Canucks to Blues? Blues should have won more then 2 rounds he was there yet they didn't.

I'm not even going to compare their gigs as assistant coaches because there so many variables. Watch the video from the coaching conference, where he admits in Vancouver he's done things Desjardins has asked him to do.

As head coaches both failed in their first stints. Forget their playing careers, forget one assistant coaching a supposed cup contender and the other assistant coaching an organization in a downward spiral.

Both are bright minds nonetheless, I would've been ok with either. Both have something to prove.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

You're right, this was clearly it was an exhaustive search. Clearly. What I am getting at is that no one should be surprised by the odd fan not liking this move. Even more surprising to me would be seeing someone thrilled by it at the same time.

First of all, I don't see anyone "thrilled" with it (if it is indeed confirmed).

I do see a few people strongly disliking it (and referenced some of those people, not meaning you).

I'm not the least bit surprised by those people strongly opposed to it, because there's always a handful of people on this forum (or in any fan base) who tend to live under an unending rain-cloud.

My issue with what you said originally is that I don't think there's enough information to call this a bland or a sexy pick. Any such notion would be based just on the surface / name recognition which is disingenuous and premature.

But yes, I agree no one should be moving toward either extreme (love/hate) regardless of who it is at this point.

[Coach]

My biggest question mark on this guy is how to pronounce his name.

Goo-Loo-tz-un
Guh-luh-tz-en

?

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by MattyC

My biggest question mark on this guy is how to pronounce his name.

Goo-Loo-tz-un
Guh-luh-tz-en

?

Shillington.

[edslunch]

Tone aside, I see where Stay Golden is coming from. There are not a lot of superlatives in GG's public record. I'm quite confident BT did a thorough search and has a much better understanding of the man than any of us ever will and expect it will work out just fine. But all the people arguing that Golden hasn't made his case haven't exactly made their case either.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by edslunch

But all the people arguing that Golden hasn't made his case haven't exactly made their case either.

Their case, as near as I can make out, is that so far there are no grounds for emotional outbursts on one side or the other. And I think that case is pretty self-evident.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I brought up all his NHL stats because it is a reflection of what he accomplished as an NHL career thus far as a player and a HC and and Asst.
It also shows that he is rounded. Many players try to move into coaching and it doesn't work, many players want to continue their NHL career into coaching and they don't get hired. It is relevant.

So far you've whirled up a bunch of information, but not much knowledge.

What is it about the systems Gulutzan employs or is in favour of that you do not like?

Why are they a misfit for the existing personnel of the club?

Why do you perceive him to be a misfit for the style of play and coach profile Treliving is seeking?

Why is Muller more suited for the personnel/style of play/ coaching profile?

Reading irrelevant points about games played in the NHL is as valid as evaluating Treliving's qualifications prior to his hire because he never played in the league.

Insight!!... We're looking for insight into your detest of this potential hire.

Craft a theoretic coaching profile, state why you think the Flames should employ a different style of play.

Heck, maybe even just state why you think Hartleys style of play should be improved upon.

Not that I'm expecting much, as you have failed to provide substantial evidence of why you decided to denigrate Treliving in the past.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

First of all, I don't see anyone "thrilled" with it (if it is indeed confirmed).

I do see a few people strongly disliking it (and referenced some of those people, not meaning you).

I'm not the least bit surprised by those people strongly opposed to it, because there's always a handful of people on this forum (or in any fan base) who tend to live under an unending rain-cloud.

My issue with what you said originally is that I don't think there's enough information to call this a bland or a sexy pick. Any such notion would be based just on the surface / name recognition which is disingenuous and premature.

But yes, I agree no one should be moving toward either extreme (love/hate) regardless of who it is at this point.

I think in most ways it's just apples and oranges at this point. 90% of the fans out there aren't going to do any type of analysis beyond name recognition at this point so there's no point in holding it against them.

I dug up the motivation to at least run his name through google a few times throughout this process. The few people that are actually doing at least that or more are definitely in the minority when it comes to off-season fandom.

[Point Blank]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Tone aside, I see where Stay Golden is coming from. There are not a lot of superlatives in GG's public record. I'm quite confident BT did a thorough search and has a much better understanding of the man than any of us ever will and expect it will work out just fine. But all the people arguing that Golden hasn't made his case haven't exactly made their case either.

And what case would that be? As I recall it was SG who came out guns blazing against this hire. Onus is on him to back it up with reliable data.

[Phaneufenstein]

Originally Posted by MattyC

My biggest question mark on this guy is how to pronounce his name.

Goo-Loo-tz-un
Guh-luh-tz-en

?

Not sure on pronunciation but I see several posters misspelling his name
It's GulutzAn not GulutzEn

[Vulcan]

A couple of things about this hire. Gulutzan and Treliving both worked their way up from the deep minors. Gulutzan mainly as a coach but both with similar backgrounds. Another point is Gulutzan showed he is a self starter with his building of a new team from scratch in Las Vegas as both coach and GM. I guess Treliving out did him by co-founding a new league but I like self starters.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

And what case would that be? As I recall it was SG who came out guns blazing against this hire. Onus is on him to back it up with reliable data.

The guns blazing part was totally over the top no doubt, but when he started quoting 'facts' the responses were like "why is having been a player valuable", "yeah but it was a bad team", "we don't know if he was responsible for PP"....

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

A couple of things about this hire. Gulutzan and Treliving both worked their way up from the deep minors. Gulutzan mainly as a coach but both with similar backgrounds. Another point is Gulutzan showed he is a self starter with his building of a new team from scratch in Las Vegas as both coach and GM. I guess Treliving out did him by co-founding a new league but I like self starters.