[News] Bettman upholds 20 game Wideman suspension. NHLPA files appeal to neutral arbitrator

[Ashasx]

ok sory

[sun]

Any dummies wondering what they're "missing" can go read the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of posts in the other thread. Don't think we need to go over it again.

MOD EDIT: No insults please.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by harmony

I completely agree. it's a joke that there are so many homer idiots defending this guy. nobody outside Calgary sees this as anything other than a deliberate assault from behind on a ref.

A delib assault makes no sense. What's the motive?

[transplant99]

All this is IMO was the NHL waiting for the right case to use to test the independent arbitration process, and this one fits the criteria.

This has nothing to do with the Flames or Wideman any longer, this is all about the NHL vs the NHLPA and let the chips fall where they may, so to speak.

Both sides think they have a winnable argument. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

News Update

NHLPA @NHLPA
NHLPA will appeal Bettman’s decision upholding 20 game suspension of Wideman to the Neutral Discipline Arbitrator

I really think pushing the concussion issue is a mistake if the goal is to argue for Wideman's innocence but I think that the NHLPA may be using the Wideman situation as an opportunity to confront the NHL about concussions.

[Weitz]

I think the neutral arb. Will uphold the suspension. Just seems the NHL's case makes much more sense than Widemans.

[N-E-B]

I've defended Bettman a lot in the past, but between this and the CalgaryNEXT comments, I don't think I can defend that guy anymore. What a clown.

[Redrum]

In the mean time Furlatt is still floating around ruining games without consequence when he should've been shot and pissed on years ago.

[browna]

If Wideman hadn't sent that text, I think we'd be talking about the reduction.

The fact that he didn't look back to help the linesman up, combined with the fact that he's independently talking about the reason he thinks why he's getting investigated, both show no remorse. The on ice thing may slide by itself, but when combined with the comments after, no way the NHL would give benefit of the doubt, and since they already set it where they set it at 20 games (IMO to appease the refs), they can't come down as I am guessing even they thought would happen upon appeal....until the text message comes to light.

This will obviously set precedence for teams and players regarding their cellphones going forwards after any sort of on ice incident.

And yeah, even if Wideman wins the next process, he's close to missing 10 games anyways as Burke says, though I guess he'll get his money. But T99 is correct, this isn't about the Flames and Wideman, and its not even about Don Henderson. It's maybe not even about concussions, though that's part of it regarding the next fight the PA and the league will have; a fight that really is an early round battle regarding the push back from both sides in general regarding the next CBA. No side wants to lose this one.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I don't know how an arbitrator could change it after what we have learned today.

What have we learned today? That Wideman sent a text that he is as annoyed by this process as many of us are? Understandable, considering it's costing him a half mill.

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well if Bettman's 2 options were reduce to zero or leave at 20, based on the incident, what do you expect him to do?

Was that the case? I'm pretty sure he had the power to impose whatever he wanted (as indicated by his threat to increase the suspension being only mitigated by Wideman's clean history), regardless of what PA requested

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Is there really no other angle at all of the hit? Maybe one where we can see Wideman's face?

There seems to be one other angle but it's high up and far away. It looks very accidental in that view. Not sure if the NHL is aware of it's existence though, as they only used the equally inconclusive angle 7 times in their suspension video.


To all the texts talking about Wideman's "differing narrative(s)", all I can say is . Everything that he has said fits Occam's razor a lot more than the NHL's confused and contradictory "narratives".

This whole thing is just crazy. I can only communicate how I feel about this ridiculous sitution through images:



IMO most of the people convicting Wideman are using giant leaps of logic and one of these:

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by harmony

I completely agree. it's a joke that there are so many homer idiots defending this guy. nobody outside Calgary sees this as anything other than a deliberate assault from behind on a ref.

dont live in Calgary nor cheer for the Flames and I see a guy skating and then putting his hands up on instinct in self defense rather than with premeditation

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

dont live in Calgary nor cheer for the Flames and I see a guy skating and then putting his hands up on instinct in self defense rather than with premeditation

u homer

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Which Wideman should I believe?

The one who vaguely remembers going to the bench and an incident happening but doesn't remember who or how he hit someone?

Or the Wideman who recalls the event and looked up last second and hit the linesman but apologized for it right after?

Not being a Flames homer but it is possible that his recollection is inconsistent because he suffered a concussion (ie things become clearer over time). For the record, I think 15-20 games is fair because you need to be in control, even if the intent wasn't there.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Oling Roachinen cutting to the heart of the issue.

Wideman was dishonest and lacked remorse as far as the league is concerned. Based on his dishonesty they do not believe the concussion he may or may not have suffered played a mitigating role, and his conduct following the incident was less than apologetic.

I don't see how an arbitrator is going to give him less games. Pretty compelling argument from the perspective of the league.

Why does remorse matter? Honest question. If he was truly concussed and out of it, surely remorse can't be as important as if it was clearly intentional (ie Bertuzzi).

[Oling_Roachinen]

It's funny because we have Wideman testifying himself that he was purposely misleading with his woozy comment.

I note that Mr. Wideman gave a post-game interview in which he essentially denied having been "woozy. "
Mr. Wideman testified at the hearing that he had been instructed to give a misleading answer if asked about his
condition and that he followed that instruction.

His own experts testified that Wideman told them he couldn't recall the event and what happened and that he was confused and not registering the event, which is contradicted by his own testimony and interviews about how he looked up and couldn't avoid contact.

brief interviews with Mr. Wideman conducted several days after the incident (at a time when he was well aware that he was the subject of an imminent supplementary discipline hearing)

Q. So when you said on your direct examination in response to Mr. Stoykewych's
question about whether you believe the things that Mr. Wideman told you, you said
you have to believe what your patient is telling you?
A. Correct.
Q. But Mr. Wideman wasn't your patient'?
A. That's correct.
Q. So you didn't have to believe what he told you, correct'?
A. Yeah.
Q. But you did?
A. Yes.
Q. And. . . you didn't do anything to kind of test out whether what he was telling
you might not be the case, did you?
A. That's correct.
Q. You simply accepted it at face value?
A. Yes.

It's pretty clear what Bettman is alluding to, and I have to agree with him here. Wideman had reason to 'play up' his concussion symptoms if that was going to be his argument and these experts didn't question it at all. They diagnosed him with a concussion and then excused his behaviour because of that. And yet, when Wideman testified himself, at least based on this decision, he doesn't appear to have had the same memory effects that he told his experts.

it is my view that Mr. Wideman's usual capacity to exercise his
judgment and to control his impulses was significantly affected by the head trauma that he experienced
during the January 27, 2016 game for the period immediately after that incident.

And really I'm not sure what Wideman's defence was at this point. The concussion experts are coming and talking about concussions can affect behaviour, cause impulse controls, etc. but we're also suppose to believe that it was just an accident. He should of picked one defense and just stuck with it.

[Super-Rye]

I hate the homer argument.

I mean I get it. People usually tend to develop bias', especially over something they're emotional or passionate about, but that doesn't make someone's point invalid.

[Huntingwhale]

Wow Burke was pissed in that interview. Can't say I disagree with him. The fact it took this long to make a decision is BS. Reminds of all the BS waiting time when trying to get anything done with the government or any other type of entity like that. No need to make it last that long other then you're too lazy to handle it.

Stuff happens at my work all the time where I might get blamed for doing something. But sometimes you have to bend over backwards and tell people what they want to hear. Very weird situation overall. I agree with Bettman and the leagues suspension. Wideman many not have had intent, but his flip flopping of stories and lack of remorse is telling. He may not have intentionally done it ( I believe that), but ffs sakes tell them what they want to hear and be done with it.

As much as I think he should move on and just let it go, lost in all of this is that he's losing out on over a half million dollars. Insane amount of money. If I was him, I'd be fight tooth and nail for that dough too. He's losing more money in those 20 games then many people in this world make their entire lives. Sometimes have to suck in your pride, keep your mouth shut and tell people what they need to hear. I can't help but feel that if Wideman took even some responsibility, he'd be back in the lineup a whole lot sooner.

I dunno, maybe this is a bad analogy. But if I hit someone with my car, and I know in my heart it's 100% an accident and unavoidable, yet I don't offer up any remorse, it's going to look pretty bad. People will be upset with me and want to screw me over. Or , I could apologize profusely, accept blame and it might go over smoother. Wideman's a proud player and I get that. But it's hurting him in this case.

[bubbsy]

Don't even know what to say about the whole entire situation....

In any case, I wonder if the sms msg insulting the refs impacts his playing career going forward.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

I hate the homer argument.

I mean I get it. People usually tend to develop bias', especially over something they're emotional or passionate about, but that doesn't make someone's point invalid.

Actually, it kinda does

[RHSkinny]

This is my first post on CP so I think I'd better introduce myself as a huge Flames fan because I sense a lot of people might disagree with what I am about to post and accuse me of being a troll.

I've watched the now infamous video of the incident many times as I am sure everyone has. What I see is after Wideman gets up from the hit and straightens up, he takes 4, count them 4 purposeful strides towards the bench in a direct line. That is to say, he doesn't weave back and forth but skates directly to the door of the bench knowing he needs to change. Also, I totally disagree with anyone that says that he took a little "stutter step" in an effort to avoid the linesman. I see that "stutter step" as him planting his outside leg in an effort to get a better hit in to the unsuspecting official, and hit him he does, ON PURPOSE !

I also have to say I agree 100% with Bettmans findings released today. There was no way that Gary could or should have allowed Wideman to play the "concussion card" as it would have set a dangerous precedent going forward for future disciplinary hearings.

The only thing I don't like about the suspension is the fact that with Wideman in the lineup the Flames are more likely to lose more games, so in that respect I wish he would return sooner as I don't see the Flames making it to the post season and the lower we drop in the standings the higher we pick in the 2016 entry draft.

I'm hoping I have seen Wideman's last game as a Flame but don't know if he will be very easily traded now given that any team that acquires him will only have around twenty games remaining in their regular season prior to playoffs.