Thoughts on Treliving so far?

[Huntingwhale]

Honestly, every GM makes good and bad moves. As a GM you're dealing with human beings who think their own ways and protect their own interests. The GMs job is to put the right people in place in order to succeed. Once he's done that, it's up to the players to execute. That's why the Flames' management has come out and publicly said they want players with high character.

As a fan all you can ask for is that your GM makes more good moves then bad moves. The guy who makes the most good moves over a span of time usually wins the cup. Treliving has made more good moves then bad ones. He's on the right track.

[Lanny_McDonald]

My issue with Raymond is not the signing, it's the unwillingness to admit the error and get rid of the guy. I thought he was going to when he waived him earlier this year, but they did not make the right move and jettison him when they had the chance.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by New Era

My issue with Raymond is not the signing, it's the unwillingness to admit the error and get rid of the guy. I thought he was going to when he waived him earlier this year, but they did not make the right move and jettison him when they had the chance.

Could be because ownership isn't/wasn't willing to park 7 million in the minors if Ramo didn't step his game up. That move happened after Raymond hit waivers though, so I don't know.

I do agree though. Hate that he's still around.

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by New Era

Agostino, Arnold, Shore, Poirier, the organist from Slapshot (post shot to the head), any fan who has hit the net in the intermission challenge, the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's... The options are endless.

So you would prefer them being sat in the pressbox/receiving very little ice time? None of those guys have earned their way onto the main team, or else they would be playing with them at the moment. Raymond is statistically better than everyone you have listed.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I gave Treliving a C grade. It's been the deals that he hasn't been able to complete that have left me wanting more from him.

His biggest failure was not trading Wideman in the offseason. Coming off a career year and with the Hamilton signing there was absolutely no reason to keep Wideman on the roster. He went from being worth a 1st round pick to being untradeable.

Also the deal that fell through with Hiller leaving us with a 3 goalie crap shoot is a big reason the Flames had such a rough start to the year.

And finally we have the FA signings that haven't worked out for us. Bollig, Engelland, Raymond are all overpaid and the 3 most commonly scratched players.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I gave Treliving a C grade. It's been the deals that he hasn't been able to complete that have left me wanting more from him.

His biggest failure was not trading Wideman in the offseason. Coming off a career year and with the Hamilton signing there was absolutely no reason to keep Wideman on the roster. He went from being worth a 1st round pick to being untradeable.

If they weren't completed, how do you even know they even possible?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

If they weren't completed, how do you even know they even possible?

Because they've been discussed by Treliving?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Because they've been discussed by Treliving?

What did he say? (I must have missed it)

The only thing I remember was that off quote from Schlemko that seemed to imply they were trying to move a D but it didn't end up happening. I would in particular be interested when he said (or what makes you speculate) that any team would have given up a 1st for him. The number of teams that can take on his boat anchor contract is small, let alone giving up a 1st for him.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I gave Treliving a C grade. It's been the deals that he hasn't been able to complete that have left me wanting more from him.

His biggest failure was not trading Wideman in the offseason. Coming off a career year and with the Hamilton signing there was absolutely no reason to keep Wideman on the roster. He went from being worth a 1st round pick to being untradeable.

Wideman has a no trade clause and a big cap hit with term. Who's to say he didn't try to move him but that is a lot to overcome. Moving forward, now that he is on the third pairing, I think Wideman might be more motivated to move on. But last summer, after a trip to the playoffs and playing a big role with Gio out, why would Wideman want to move? And how many teams really would be lining up to take 5.25 for two more years?

Sometimes it seems people think GMs can just magically make contracts go away. As we have seen, trades are at an all time low this season.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Wideman has a no trade clause and a big cap hit with term. Who's to say he didn't try to move him but that is a lot to overcome. Moving forward, now that he is on the third pairing, I think Wideman might be more motivated to move on. But last summer, after a trip to the playoffs and playing a big role with Gio out, why would Wideman want to move? And how many teams really would be lining up to take 5.25 for two more years?

Sometimes it seems people think GMs can just magically make contracts go away. As we have seen, trades are at an all time low this season.

A 55 point defenseman at 5 million is very much tradeable, clause or not. There was a lot of talk that Wideman and Russell were both available, but no deal could be made throughout the Summer. I don't know the specifics, but Treliving made them available and failed to make a deal. Even a 2nd-3rd round pick for Wideman would be looking good right now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Except you missing the point. Wideman has the option to decline trades and it's possible that's what he did to stay in Calgary. It's possible that he's become untradeable again.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

A 55 point defenseman at 5 million is very much tradeable, clause or not. There was a lot of talk that Wideman and Russell were both available, but no deal could be made throughout the Summer. I don't know the specifics, but Treliving made them available and failed to make a deal. Even a 2nd-3rd round pick for Wideman would be looking good right now.

Doubtful. A few years ago, Regehr (while not a offensive defenseman, was one of the best at his job and playing top minutes) was traded with a 2nd round pick (and Kotalik, salary dump but he ended up leaving the NHL anyways; not sure if that was known) for Byron (waivers) and Butler (in the AHL) now.

How many teams, and who, can pick up Wideman's salary? Playoff teams are against the cap (or some an internal budget), non-playoff teams Wideman would use his NMC. Wideman had said when he first signed here he thought we were a playoff team that had a chance to win a cup, but we ended up crapping the bed and dumping all our top players. How do you know the accepting team was asking for Calgary to pick up 50% of his price tag, something Treliving was hoping not to do? Despite a 55 point season, his price tag might leave only 1 team out there that can afford him that he might be willing to accept a trade to, and maybe 0 teams if you include his price tag.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

So you would prefer them being sat in the pressbox/receiving very little ice time? None of those guys have earned their way onto the main team, or else they would be playing with them at the moment. Raymond is statistically better than everyone you have listed.

Only because Raymond has been afforded something the others have not; opportunity.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by New Era

Agostino, Arnold, Shore, Poirier, the organist from Slapshot (post shot to the head), any fan who has hit the net in the intermission challenge, the dead guy from Weekend at Bernie's... The options are endless.

Lol I immediately thought of the sumo guys

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Lol I immediately thought of the sumo guys

Those guys would work too. They may not have the speed of Raymond, but they play a lot more physical and show a willingness to use their bodies.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

So you would prefer them being sat in the pressbox/receiving very little ice time? None of those guys have earned their way onto the main team, or else they would be playing with them at the moment. Raymond is statistically better than everyone you have listed.

I generally agree with you. None of the AHLers are knocking the door down with their play and arguably don't deserve a chance. But the only thing keeping Raymond here is his contract. He has done very little to justify his spot. Especially given where this team is in the standings I would like to see even a rotation of guys given the opportunity he is being given.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Except you missing the point. Wideman has the option to decline trades and it's possible that's what he did to stay in Calgary. It's possible that he's become untradeable again.

Then what's the excuse for not trading Russell? Another player coming off a career year and doesn't have a NMC. There was a market for middle pairing defensemen and it was widely stated that Russell was also available.

[Hackey]

If there was a trade for Wideman that made sense I'm sure Treliving would have done it. Likely it didn't exist or there were conditions he wasn't willing to meet. Treliving is a smart man and I'm sure he weighed his options and made the best decision. Cali Panther Fan could be right as well and Wideman could have been unwilling to move. We really don't know the specifics but I am willing to bet if a deal existed that made sense he would have made it.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by New Era

Only because Raymond has been afforded something the others have not; opportunity.

Training camp is not an opportunity? If they can't hack it at camp, why would they suddenly flourish with an opportunity in the NHL?

In regards for Wideman, I swear I read something that management have tried moving Wideman in the last two off seasons to no avail. You can easily assume they tried at the TDL as well. Failing to make a deal is a completely different thing to failure to attempt to make a deal. One is being prudent in doing your job, but no results. The latter is just being lazy and not even doing your job, which is not what Treliving is doing. Taking a loss on Wideman is also a poor business decision. Something you have to consider when making deals.

I think so posters also forget...

Treliving is a rookie NHL GM. He is in his 1.5th season as an NHL GM.

Wanting Raymond gone is fine. Saying Treliving is slow in getting rid of Raymond is crazy. he's been here 1.5 seasons. Normal should be "let's get rid of him now". Longer leash? Maybe. But trading a guy/buying him out after half a season is just beyond dumb assets and business management wise. On a similar vein, I am assuming a buyout of Raymond this off season though if Treliving admits mistake. Smid I could see salary retained and traded.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Then what's the excuse for not trading Russell? Another player coming off a career year and doesn't have a NMC. There was a market for middle pairing defensemen and it was widely stated that Russell was also available.

My guess is that they have been trying to move Wideman but the market for him is lousy because of his contract. BT is likely resigned to not being able to move him for any kind of return until next years deadline.

I think he knows he has a valuable asset in Russell and expects his value to only increase until the deadline. And if by some miracle you can move Wideman, then maybe you consider re-signing Russell. But that's the likely scenario IMO. You just pray Russell doesn't get hurt.