2015-2016 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Bautista and Edwin are no brainers. Well below market. Dickey is questionable. I'd prefer they let him walk and used that money on someone else, but given the state of their current rotation and the propensity of free agents to avoid Toronto, probably not a risk they could realistically take.

When your current rotation consists of:

1. Stroman
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

...then exercising the option on 200+ innings & 30+ starts of RA Dickey is a no brainer IMO.

So yeap, as you stated, can't risk not bringing him back for another year.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah, that's basically what I expect as well (Except that I think/hope that it'd be Osuna in the rotation).

Sanchez as Starter: .240avg .346obp .392slg 5.73K/9 5.05BB/9
Sanchez as Reliever: .176avg .245obp .222slg 6.49K/9 2.39BB/9

The bullpen is the place for Sanchez.

There is many arguments to it. Look at Osuna's stats as a starter in Dunedin or Lansing last year they were awful. On the flip side his numbers as a reliever in the majors were great.

Either way one of Osuna and Sanchez will be in the rotation. He was already finding his way as a starter until he got injured. He has a easy delivery and his development as a starter already really gives him the nod over Osuna. His control is an issue but pitcher's usually become better with control over time.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Blue Jays need to make a decision on Sanchez and Osuna and stick to it. They keep switching them in and out of the rotation/bullpen and they are going to ruin two pretty good prospects. I fear it's may be too late on Sanchez alreardy.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I think Bautista is more the Papplebon in your analogy, than O'Day is. I'm sure they'd ask Bautista his thoughts before extending an offer. O"Day wouldn't sign there either if it was going to be an issue.

This team had really good chemistry and it was well documented. I don't understand why you'd flirt with the potential for personalities clashing in the clubhouse. O'Day and Bautista have clashed more than one time in the past and that will not bode well in an 162 game season.

If I'm the Blue Jay's management, I don't even think about calling O'Day or asking Bautista, he's off my list with zero thought of being signed.

[Roof-Daddy]

I wonder what kind of an arm the Jays could get if they packaged up EE with someone else, like Goins or Revere for example?

I'd hate to lose any of our big bats, but if they can't shore up the rotation via free agency, they might have to.

2B Travis
SS Tulowitzki
3B Donaldson
DH Bautista
1B Colabello/Smoak/UFA
BC Martin
CF Pillar
RF Saunders
LF Pompey

That is still a formidable line up IMO.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Parallex

As is we'd have a bullpen of...

Aaron Sanchez
Brett Cecil
Liam Hendriks
Aaron Loup
Ryan Tepera
Bo Schultz
Pat Venditte

... that's assuming that Osuna moves to the rotation and nobody else is acquired. That's certainly not ideal but there are some interesting hurlers in there. I'm confident in Sanchez and Cecil (as bullpen arms), Hendriks was a revelation last year, Venditte always has the platoon advantage, Loup had his struggles but reduce his role to Loogy and the source of all his struggles last year disappears (namely a spike in power numbers by RH hitters... lefties slugged .362 against him while RH slugged .510. for perspective every RH he faced turned into Jose Bautista and every lefties was Ryan Goins). It shouldn't be hard (or expensive) to find upgrades on Tepera & Schultz.

The bullpen will figure itself out. Spending money on it is about the stupidest thing you can do. Relievers are just so volatile from year to year. Everyone can bring up the KC model, but they didn't go out and sign a bunch of established guys. Just bring in a bunch of hard throwers into camp and hope a couple of them stick - that's really your best bet in the bullpen.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

the pitching free agent list looks really uninspiring.

It's actually a very deep class compared to most years.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Blue Jays need to make a decision on Sanchez and Osuna and stick to it. They keep switching them in and out of the rotation/bullpen and they are going to ruin two pretty good prospects. I fear it's may be too late on Sanchez alreardy.

Geez louise man - you have the most pessimistic view about everything related to the Jays that I've ever seen.

Nothing wrong with establishing where a pitcher fits best. A lot of hurlers get moved around early in their careers.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by kmart

Look at Osuna's stats as a starter in Dunedin or Lansing last year they were awful.

... no they weren't. He didn't even pitch in Lansing last year and his stats in Dunedin were strong (12.27K/9 & 3.68BB/9) albeit in limited playing time due to injury. Sure his ERA wasn't good but ERA is a dumb stat (and it was caused by a obviously unsustainable .446 BABIP).

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Geez louise man - you have the most pessimistic view about everything related to the Jays that I've ever seen.

Nothing wrong with establishing where a pitcher fits best. A lot of hurlers get moved around early in their careers.

There is everything wrong with seeing where a pitcher fits early in their career. Starters are identified very early and drafted as such, and teams spend years developing their release point, upping their innings (so they can maintain velocity and command over 6-7 innings), and adding a third and sometimes 4th pitch to their arsenal.

Not always, but in general, once it's determined that a pitcher is not a starter, than they can penciled into the bullpen (holds true for most of the Jays pen last year).

We're not talking about putting a guy in pen for the playoffs here which everyone does, we are talking Sanchez now coming out of the bullpen for two straights seasons now (except for a small amount at the start of this year). That's two years of key development time where's been throwing 10 fastballs for 1 inning, rather than building up pitch stamina, adding control, and secondary pitches to his game. Bottom line, if the the Jays see him as a starter, he has to start in Toronto or Buffalo. If they don't, well it's time to move on and leave him in the bullpen permanently. Continuing to pitch him out of the bullpen will ensure we will never be the 2nd-3rd guy in the rotation he was projected to be.

What other young starting pitchers do you see in the league that have spent time between the bullpen and starting rotation in the Majors to start their career. I can name a few, but the good ones are far and precious few between.

[flames_fan_down_under]

I already can't wait for next season to start! Excercising their options on Dickey, Bautista and Encarnacion all make perfect sense to me. Dickey will be a fifth starter who can eat 200 plus innings at 12 million dollars. Finding pitchers through free agency will be interesting though like many posters have said the trade route might make the most sense for them.

One of Edwin, Troy or Jose will maybe get you a starting pitcher.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

We're not talking about putting a guy in pen for the playoffs here which everyone does, we are talking Sanchez now coming out of the bullpen for two straights seasons now (except for a small amount at the start of this year). .

He was primarily a starter in the minors until he was brought up last year and he got about a third of the year worth of starts this past year, so he's not really coming out of the bullpen for two straight years.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I already can't wait for next season to start! Excercising their options on Dickey, Bautista and Encarnacion all make perfect sense to me. Dickey will be a fifth starter who can eat 200 plus innings at 12 million dollars. Finding pitchers through free agency will be interesting though like many posters have said the trade route might make the most sense for them.

One of Edwin, Troy or Jose will maybe get you a starting pitcher.

I think Jose is the most likely option to be traded. One year contract and can play the field so he appeals to both AL and NL teams. Edwin has had a lot of injuries and is limited to DH, and Tulowitzky's contact is very limiting.

I would not miss Bautista. I'll forever remember that homer against Texas, but the guy is a first rate #######. The way he carries himself, in my opinion, really hurts the Jays with the umpires. People can say they wouldn't hold that against the Jays because they are professionals, but I just don't believe that. These guys are human, and having this guy show them up every inning and from the outfield isn't doing the Jays any favours.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by kmart

He was primarily a starter in the minors until he was brought up last year and he got about a third of the year worth of starts this past year, so he's not really coming out of the bullpen for two straight years.

He was 21 years old (maybe 20) when the Jays brought him from AAA. He had one year of AA-AAA experience. This guy has had his development severely altered by the Jays in the past two seasons. As a comparison, Syndergaard was drafted the same year as Sanchez and didn't make his major league debut until May 12 of this year while starting for two years in AA-AAA.

Not comparing them as prospect as Syndergaard is a bluechipper, but comparing their development strategies. Sanchez's is really troubling to me. Not saying he can't further develop, but I'm saying the Jays have to make a decision now. Is he a starter or is he not. If he is, he's need to be starting in AAA or with the Jays.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

One of Edwin, Troy or Jose will maybe get you a starting pitcher.

A run is a run is a run regardless of whether it comes from a bat, or prevented with a glove or an arm. We're not going to be trading Bautista, EE, or Tulo. At least not until closer to the deadline and if we do that we're trading them for prospects/young players not a pitcher.

If we had an MLB ready bluechip prospect blocked by an established vet then I could see it happening (but we don't) otherwise it makes no sense because you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[kmart]

Originally Posted by Parallex

A run is a run is a run regardless of whether it comes from a bat, or prevented with a glove or an arm. We're not going to be trading Bautista, EE, or Tulo. At least not until closer to the deadline and if we do that we're trading them for prospects/young players not a pitcher.

If we had an MLB ready bluechip prospect blocked by an established vet then I could see it happening (but we don't) otherwise it makes no sense because you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The reason I see Tulo being traded is because Goins finished off the season very strong. He's not a bluechip prospect or anything of that sort, but he's a left handed bat in a line up full of righties, so as an everyday player he can be a contributor. His defence is top notch as well, so sitting him as the fourth infielder wouldn't make much sense. He's an above average player that should be playing IMO.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by kmart

The reason I see Tulo being traded is because Goins finished off the season very strong. He's not a bluechip prospect or anything of that sort, but he's a left handed bat in a line up full of righties, so as an everyday player he can be a contributor. His defence is top notch as well, so sitting him as the fourth infielder wouldn't make much sense. He's an above average player that should be playing IMO.

I still don't see Goins as an everyday player, at least not yet. He made some adjustments last season around the all-star break that really paid off for him (resulted in way more walks) but I'd like to see how he does next season before making a decision. I expect pitchers will make an adjustment. I think he's an excellent utility infielder, though. Maybe best in the league.

I'm not so sure Travis will return to the level he was at, either. He played well above expectations. No way would I trade Tulo.

[TheAlpineOracle]

So anyone watch the Shapiro interview with Stephen Brunt followed up by Stephen Brunt appearing on Tim and Sid?

Pretty much confirms what the "pessimists" in this thread are saying. Will go with what they got for next year and then there will be a fundamental change in organizational philosophy. Shapiro flat out says that next year is the window closing.

Hard not to be a pessimist when you've followed a team for 30+ years and they continually bull the same BS.

[Hockey]

Just open up the wallet and sign Price and Greinke.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Hockey

Just open up the wallet and sign Price and Greinke.

Absolutely not going to happen. I had a little faith they may sign Price, but after those interviews, there's no chance that's the case.