Anti-Pride Bus Driver Fired

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

Exactly -- any attempt to create one is not genuine. It designed to promote intolerance. It's the same with the fictitious atheist who is objecting to drive the bus. It's point would only be to promote intolerance.

So until an athiest comes around with an objection to driving a bus based on a deeply and sincerely held belief the question of how Christians in this thread would react is pointless. The person doesn't exist.

That makes no sense at all. Atheists are just as capable of deeply and sincerely held beliefs as Christians. You really can't figure out why pride parades happen and straight parades don't?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That makes no sense at all. Atheists are just as capable of deeply and sincerely held beliefs as Christians. You really can't figure out why pride parades happen and straight parades don't?

I swear people read posts with the intent of misunderstanding them and then attacking based on that misunderstanding. Just ignore the whole straight pride thing as people obviously are reading something into it that isn't there. I agree with all the posts as to why the straight pride parade doesn't exist and those that due are drive by hate. Any my inability to explain my point in text is at fault here.


I'm also not saying that athiest can't have those beliefs just that an athiest bus driver who has a moral objection to driving an anti abortion bus doesn't exist. Any person professing to have this belief is highly likely just trying to bring attention to an anti religious agenda. The original question of would Christians on this thread support an athiest who refused to drive a bus is ridiculous because such a person does not rxist

[peter12]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That makes no sense at all. Atheists are just as capable of deeply and sincerely held beliefs as Christians. You really can't figure out why pride parades happen and straight parades don't?

I would argue that most of an atheist's deeply and sincerely-held moral beliefs are cultural vestiges of Christianity's moral culture.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by peter12

i would argue

fyp.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

I'm also not saying that athiest can't have those beliefs just that an athiest bus driver who has a moral objection to driving an anti abortion bus doesn't exist. Any person professing to have this belief is highly likely just trying to bring attention to an anti religious agenda. The original question of would Christians on this thread support an athiest who refused to drive a bus is ridiculous because such a person does not rxist

Right. Just like any religious person not willing to drive the pride bus is trying to bring attention to an anti-gay agenda. Jesse Rau is not a sincere Christian with deeply held beliefs that everyone needs to recognize, respect and appreciate. He's an idiot who has been taught ridiculously false information regarding homosexuality and child molestation, homosexuality and genetics, homosexuality and biblical floods in Calgary, and most of all, what imaginary people said about homosexuality thousands of years ago. None of that is sincere and deep. It's just dumb. Much like straight parades and atheist refusnics.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by firebug

fyp.

Aha, that's fair.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would argue that most of atheist's deeply and sincerely-held moral beliefs are cultural vestiges of Christianity's moral culture.

I agree. Though I'm not sure if that's the biggest influence, or biology - there's a reason we feel so strongly about the moral importance of protecting children / family members, to use an obvious example.

Regardless it's become more and more obvious to me that anything that strikes one as being morally correct just on its face, intuitively, should be scrutinized very closely. Our gut reaction seems often insanely wrong.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I agree. Though I'm not sure if that's the biggest influence, or biology - there's a reason we feel so strongly about the moral importance of protecting children / family members, to use an obvious example.

Regardless it's become more and more obvious to me that anything that strikes one as being morally correct just on its face, intuitively, should be scrutinized very closely. Our gut reaction seems often insanely wrong.

Obviously such a question would require a vast undertaking of sifting through Western cultural history. If you could illustrate a significant shift in moral values between Roman paganism and Roman Christianity, then the argument would hold that these values are supranatural.

David Bentley Hart (Orthodox theologian) has in fact done just that - Atheist Delusions (awful title). And so did Nietzsche.

As for gut reactions, and morality - totally agree. A lot of our natural morality almost certainly extends from natural selection acting through the cultural filter of a small, ethnically-homogeneous tribal setting.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by peter12

I would argue that most of an atheist's deeply and sincerely-held moral beliefs are cultural vestiges of Christianity's moral culture.

I am not so sure that is true. Athiests in the far-east, for example? Of course moral beliefs are part of the moral culture, but I don't think Christianity has a monopoly on morals and certainly those Christian morals seem to morph over time.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I am not so sure that is true. Athiests in the far-east, for example? Of course moral beliefs are part of the moral culture, but I don't think Christianity has a monopoly on morals and certainly those Christian morals seem to morph over time.

What do you mean? Far-east atheism (is there such a thing? Buddhism?) is dramatically different from Late Modern Western bourgeois atheism.

I think - this conversation is already well off topic - that Christianity deserves a bit more credit than it has been getting lately. Especially in regards to how we view human beings vis-a-vis their own self-worth, relative only to itself, and not to one's place within a rigid social and political hierarchy.

All of the abolition movements of human history were Christian in origin.

To go back to this Jesse Rau character, he is a showboater, nothing more. His Christianity is just an aside. Human beings frequently disappoint.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Oh my, way off topic for sure. My point is that "Christian morals" aren't inherently Christian. "Love thy neighbour" type stuff was around long before Christ.
I must be part of the bourgeois atheism though, so what can I add to the discussion.

[jammies]

Hate the sin, love the sinner? Hate the religion, love the religious.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Right. Just like any religious person not willing to drive the pride bus is trying to bring attention to an anti-gay agenda. Jesse Rau is not a sincere Christian with deeply held beliefs that everyone needs to recognize, respect and appreciate. He's an idiot who has been taught ridiculously false information regarding homosexuality and child molestation, homosexuality and genetics, homosexuality and biblical floods in Calgary, and most of all, what imaginary people said about homosexuality thousands of years ago. None of that is sincere and deep. It's just dumb. Much like straight parades and atheist refusnics.

I agree with you about the bus driver just looking for attention. I think that since the pride bus was driven around without protest outside of this guy that most Christians didn't care either.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Buff

I guess this is as good a thread as any to "come out"

I am not going to go out of my way to march in a gay pride parade. I would probably feel uncomfortable driving a bus promoting homosexuality.I would probably also feel uncomfortable driving a bus promoting equality, but at the root, I would feel uncomfortable of how fellow Christians that I know and value would say or do to me. That is not fair. It is fair for them to question my actions and how they pertain to my faith, it is not fair for them to attack me for trying to be supportive of everybody like Jesus was.

I am for people having equality. I should not have more rights than anybody because of their sexual orientation, or the color of their skin. We should all have equal rights and opportunities.

I'm pretty well versed in how Christians feel about homosexuality, but the bolded part really stood out for me. You wouldn't feel comfortable driving a bus that promotes equality?! Like, equality for racial minorities and equality for women, that kind of thing? Mostly because of how your Christian friends would perceive your support of equality? wow.

[Minnie]

Good job, Tide.

Link

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Good job, Tide.

Link

That took a left turn that I wasn't expecting. Nicely done.

[Thor]

That video link doesn't work for me, that just me or anyone else not able to open it?

[FFR]

Originally Posted by Thor

That video link doesn't work for me, that just me or anyone else not able to open it?

I can't open it either.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by peter12

What do you mean? Far-east atheism (is there such a thing? Buddhism?) is dramatically different from Late Modern Western bourgeois atheism.

I think - this conversation is already well off topic - that Christianity deserves a bit more credit than it has been getting lately. Especially in regards to how we view human beings vis-a-vis their own self-worth, relative only to itself, and not to one's place within a rigid social and political hierarchy.

All of the abolition movements of human history were Christian in origin.

Agreed. The notion that suffering is ennobling, and that the meek have the moral high ground over the powerful, is a peculiarly Western notion embraced by non-Christian Westerners as strongly as by Christians. This belief (what Nietzsche called 'slave morality') is Christian in its roots, even though it has transcended its religious origins into secular Western morality.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. The notion that suffering is ennobling, and that the meek have the moral high ground over the powerful, is a peculiarly Western notion embraced by non-Christian Westerners as strongly as by Christians. That deeply-rooted belief (what Nietzsche called 'slave morality') is Christian in its roots, even though it has transcended its religious origins into secular Western morality.

The exchange between Jesus and Pilate was unprecedented in human history from a moral and spiritual standpoint. The idea that someone like Pilate, operating within his Roman imperial framework as a demi-god, could owe anything approaching deference to a slave like Christ would have been shocking to the ancient mind.