Same sex marriage; A look at CP's gradual acceptance

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by jtfrogger

I think that anyone that states that homosexuality is a choice must be bisexual. Because they are adamant that it is a choice, they must believe that their own attractions are a choice. They could choose to flip their attraction to a person of the opposite sex than it is currently aligned.

For me, it isn't a choice. I respect that it is for some bisexual people.

Cliff is straight as an arrow.

Fletcher though? Fletcher is open and adventurous

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Yamer

However you look at it, heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual, logic dictates that there is a predisposed physiological inclination that compels someone to have sexual attraction to any or all of those genders and/or sexes. Choosing the individual with which you wish to engage in sexual activity may be a choice, but outright sexual attraction to a certain preset type is not.

How do we explain societies like ancient Greece, where many (most?) aristocratic men took young male lovers? Some cities even had elite military units made up of mature men and their younger lovers. Is it the matter of 'any port in a storm' in a patriarchal society where women live in seclusion? The men of Sparta, for example, had no choice - every young man was assigned an older man as a personal, er tutor. It doesn't seem to have been optional. And yet the sexual attraction seems to have been genuine - the gymnasiums and training grounds were thronged with older men ogling the boys. The young male figure was idolized in artwork and verse. This can't be explained as a peculiar concentration of genetic predisposition.

[Nage Waza]

People that are 'against' homosexuality for any reason (religion, whatever) lose my respect. In fact, I am confident it is the tip of the iceberg for where our morals differ. Whatever it is that is teaching this nonsense needs to be phased out.

I also could care less about the sanctity of marriage, whatever the hell that means. Everyone is having sex, some more than others, and that is fine, and much (most?) of it takes place before marriage. We are free willed, live and let live.

Divorces happen frequently...if anything marriage itself has less and less meaning. But if someone wants to get married, no one should stand in their way.

[Dion]

[rubecube]

Flameswin and I are going to have such a sexy baby.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Does no one else see the irony of someone being offended by peoples sexual preferences/who the find attractive, in a thread about marriage equality?

Ha exactly!
I am often amused that the self proclaimed 'enlightened' are often the least tolerant.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Ha exactly!
I am often amused that the self proclaimed 'enlightened' are often the least tolerant.

Oh please. If I walk around with a "No fat chicks" shirt I'm the world's biggest jerk. But if I wear a, "No black folks" shirt it's completely fine? That's irony. It's just a big cop out. I guarantee you if you take someone who won't date a certain race, Asian for example, and show them a photograph of a very beautiful Asian person, the problem will not be lack of physical attraction. Beauty is somewhat universal....if your culture appreciates thin people, there are thin Asians etc. The problem will be the person's preconceived notions of what that Asian person is like based on race.

It's fine to not like cilantro, but you have to actually try cilantro to know if you don't like it. If you just look at it and go, "that's going to be gross", you're an idiot. If you try it, don't like it, and consequently refuse to try all other leafy green foods, you're also an idiot.

Also ironic....not being tolerant of people who are not tolerant makes you the "Least tolerant"? Good one.

[EldrickOnIce]

^ Wasn't pointing a finger in any way, my friend.
Am agreeing with you, actually, on the irony of what is and is not PC.

[troutman]

Didn't know if this should be in a separate thread, or part of this discussion.

From NPR, is a 3 year old too young to transition? Is this a decision that should be delayed until puberty or later?

At Age 3 — Transitioning From Jack To Jackie

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/...jack-to-jackie

[CliffFletcher]

nm

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by troutman

Didn't know if this should be in a separate thread, or part of this discussion.

From NPR, is a 3 year old too young to transition? Is this a decision that should be delayed until puberty or later?

At Age 3 — Transitioning From Jack To Jackie

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/...jack-to-jackie

Well really, no decision has been made yet. They're allowing the child to dress how she wants to dress, change her name from a male to female one. Don't see a huge issue with that. All these decisions can be reversed at any time.

The real decisions won't happen for sometime now.

The story of Jazz Jennings is an interesting on to read up on. I won't get all the medical stuff right here I just quickly googled the latest update I could find. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/16/living...jazz-jennings/ Nothing medically done until 11 it seems just to delay puberty with testosterone blockers. Don't know if she is on hormone therapy or anything. Reading that she seems to be pretty popular now.

So let the kids dress as they want to dress, let them pick their names. No one is chopping off any tiny balls or injecting little Jaxson with hormones at 6.

[Flash Walken]

Highly recommend "Transgender Kids"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05qkzt2

Not sure where to find it to watch in Canada, but here is a clip:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/l...r-kids-5465356

[polak]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I guarantee you if you take someone who won't date a certain race, Asian for example, and show them a photograph of a very beautiful Asian person, the problem will not be lack of physical attraction. Beauty is somewhat universal....if your culture appreciates thin people, there are thin Asians etc. The problem will be the person's preconceived notions of what that Asian person is like based on race.

Yeah I was just typing out a post questioning your post but now that I think about it, I agree with you.

Someone might not be attracted to a certain physical feature but I don't think there is one feature that everyone of a certain race has. Even skin tone, the main unifying physical trait varies tremendously within a certain race. If you can't think of one attractive person within a race I definitely think it has more to do with your stereotypes about that race than anything else.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How do we explain societies like ancient Greece, where many (most?) aristocratic men took young male lovers? Some cities even had elite military units made up of mature men and their younger lovers. Is it the matter of 'any port in a storm' in a patriarchal society where women live in seclusion? The men of Sparta, for example, had no choice - every young man was assigned an older man as a personal, er tutor. It doesn't seem to have been optional. And yet the sexual attraction seems to have been genuine - the gymnasiums and training grounds were thronged with older men ogling the boys. The young male figure was idolized in artwork and verse. This can't be explained as a peculiar concentration of genetic predisposition.

No. But it can be explained as a product of the power of social convention. Not everything can be argued biologically. People will unconsciously or subconsciously adjust their beliefs and behaviours in response to sociological trends that begin to dominate. Hell, the invention of adolescence about a hundred years ago or less—which coincided with the demise of the strict bifurcation between "childhood" and "adulthood" has had all sorts of unintended consequences, some of which may even be physiological. The point here being that society is an extremely powerful force.

[Matata]

Sexuality is not a switch with 3 settings (straight,bi,gay), it is a spectrum. A family man who never had a gay experience may end up in jail, suddenly finding himself in a place where homosexuality is socially acceptable and with a desire for companionship, that individuals sexual preference may allow them to pursue homosexual relations. Believe it or not, most prison sex is consensual.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The point here being that society is an extremely powerful force.

Agreed. And the experiences and environment of individuals - particularly in childhood - can also shape their sexual preferences. It's not 100 per cent biological, and I don't see why many proponents of gay marriage feel they have to claim it is.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Agreed. And the experiences and environment of individuals - particularly in childhood - can also shape their sexual preferences. It's not 100 per cent biological, and I don't see why many proponents of gay marriage feel they have to claim it is.

In my personal experience I have never come across any proponents that claimed that homosexuality is purely and solely biological (although I am sure they are out there). I think most people on this side of the issue can acknowledge that many mitigating factors can contribute to sexuality and sexual preference. Yet, I don't believe that it is truly an active choice that individuals make.

[Coach]

I think as the social conventions change and become more accepting of non-heterosexuality, it allows those with those tendencies to express themselves moreso than they would otherwise. So while we may see an increase in size of the LGBT community, I would chalk that up more to the fact that those people no longer fear who they are and will come out more than they would have in years past.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I think as the social conventions change and become more accepting of non-heterosexuality, it allows those with those tendencies to express themselves moreso than they would otherwise. So while we may see an increase in size of the LGBT community, I would chalk that up more to the fact that those people no longer fear who they are and will come out more than they would have in years past.

I think this is pretty valid. I mean my mother still can't believe I'm out at work, as she figures that it would prevent me from "being successful." (And really it's not like I'm a one-man pride parade around the office every day, more like I will bring a date to the company Christmas party or mention that I don't have a girlfriend/wife.)
For her, even though she's cool with me, she can't imagine that it would be acceptable at any office type work.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

I think this is pretty valid. I mean my mother still can't believe I'm out at work, as she figures that it would prevent me from "being successful." (And really it's not like I'm a one-man pride parade around the office every day, more like I will bring a date to the company Christmas party or mention that I don't have a girlfriend/wife.)
For her, even though she's cool with me, she can't imagine that it would be acceptable at any office type work.

A coworker of mine recently came out. At the end of the day she said she was taking off for the weekend, and had a bag packed. I asked where she was going, because, she had a bag packed.

Her reply was that she packed the bag in case her dad threw her out of the house for being gay.

I laughed, then realized she was serious, and then apologized.

Despite being one of the oldest people in my workplace, I just couldn't fathom a parent kicking a child out of the house because they were LGBTQ. I mean it's not 1950, it's 2015. Do these people still exist?

For the record her dad didn't freak out, and she was more than welcome back to her house.

While I'm not a father, some day when, hopefully, I am, and I get the question "what if your son/daughter is gay" I fully intend on responding, "in all honesty, I really don't care if my son/daughter is straight or gay, as long as they're happy, love who they're with, and don't bring home a (insert random race here)."