Friedman: Flames a good fit for Kessel?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Why is that? He's not a leader, it's been well documented the guy just wants to play hockey and do nothing but the least he has to with the media.

I'd argue in TOR he did not have stable leadership to operate under and was thrown to the media wolves far too many times.

Here he'd be well guarded against that as the leaders in the room take majority of the media time anyways. And the Flames media right now have a hard time throwing anyone under the bus like those vultures in T.O.

Because our coaching staff and leadership group are fitness fanatics with extremely high levels of accountability and professionalism. They have attributed a large part of their success this season to this, and to the culture that they've built. Phil Kessel does not fit with this culture.

[theslymonkey]

It's unbelievable how many people throw stones at Kessel. I know the idea is lost on Flames fans because we had Iggy for so long.

But how many elite right wingers are in the game right now?

Most teams would kill to have someone with that kind of scoring touch flanking their #1C. This would be a real chance to have a legit RW that would just have to shoot the puck.

How many times did we scream at Hudler or Johnny to just shoot it?

You wouldn't have to worry about that anymore. Guys like Kessel, OV, Perry... they shoot the puck a lot!!!

[AcGold]

Having Kessel would be great. He's a weird looking dude but he can play hockey and isn't selfish. Sure he'd fit in great here... if it weren't for his contract. We'll have to re sign Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano all in the span of his contract so it will effectively cripple us.

Kessel is an elite player that can handle pressure, if only his contract wasn't so bad for us.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Having Kessel would be great. He's a weird looking dude but he can play hockey and isn't selfish. Sure he'd fit in great here... if it weren't for his contract. We'll have to re sign Bennett, Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano all in the span of his contract so it will effectively cripple us.

Kessel is an elite player that can handle pressure, if only his contract wasn't so bad for us.

His contract is fair value, 8 mil is fair for an elite RW. As the cap slowly increases so does his value. In the last few years of his contract, he will still be in the ball park for value, and his actual salary will be under his cap hit. That's a tradable asset if need be.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by heep223

Because our coaching staff and leadership group are fitness fanatics with extremely high levels of accountability and professionalism. They have attributed a large part of their success this season to this, and to the culture that they've built. Phil Kessel does not fit with this culture.

Now who outside of the Toronto media says Kessel is never held accountable or unprofessional? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

The fitness thing is fine, it's been publicised all too well. And yet he still scores like no other in the last 5 years. and injuries? Nada. There's something to be said for that too.

It seems like you and couple of others are painting Kessel with a brush he does not deserve to be painted with. He's snapped off at the media because they're idiots out there and I applaud him for that. Sticks up for even the worst of his team mates (phaneuf) . I suppose that could be considered unprofessional. It is Phaneuf after all.

The point is, Kessel here in CGY would not be left in the open to the media and would not be a leadership core guy. for 8 million a year you'd hope he could be but with Gio, Monahan, Hudler, Wideman and Russel, he doesn't need to be.

[jeffman]

I don't get it, if we want an elite rw sniper that can put 30 goals a year and is below average defensively why don't we just bring back iggy. His contract wouldn't cripple us as much and he would cost us less

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Now who outside of the Toronto media says Kessel is never held accountable or unprofessional?

My opinion is that it's unprofessional to spout off publicly in the media about how you're so special that you don't have to work out in the off season. You?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by jeffman

I don't get it, if we want an elite rw sniper that can put 30 goals a year and is below average defensively why don't we just bring back iggy. His contract wouldn't cripple us as much and he would cost us less

Kind of obvious isn't it?

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by jeffman

I don't get it, if we want an elite rw sniper that can put 30 goals a year and is below average defensively why don't we just bring back iggy. His contract wouldn't cripple us as much and he would cost us less

Iggy had to go to allow Gio to lead. The same should have been done with Thonton and Marleau to allow Pavelski to lead.

Kessel would be there to shut up and shoot. Nothing more.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by heep223

My opinion is that it's unprofessional to spout off publicly in the media about how you're so special that you don't have to work out in the off season. You?

Not at all, I don't like Kessel that much in the first place but again, he puts up stupid numbers for someone who doesn't take the gym as a religion. Thus, when he gets quoted for that, he can back it up on the ice. And, T.O media again are vultures. The worst. TMZ of hockey. Even worse than that.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Not at all, I don't like Kessel that much in the first place but again, he puts up stupid numbers for someone who doesn't take the gym as a religion. Thus, when he gets quoted for that, he can back it up on the ice. And, T.O media again are vultures. The worst. TMZ of hockey. Even worse than that.

On the last part, we can definitely agree.

I just think that many people underestimate the impact of organizational culture, and additionally the importance that the current coaching staff and management team place on it.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by heep223

On the last part, we can definitely agree.

I just think that many people underestimate the impact of organizational culture, and additionally the importance that the current coaching staff and management team place on it.

Who knows, many players change when getting traded.

For Kessel, I actually do think he'd thrive here playing top line minutes and not dealing with a media group like Toronto's. He seems like a player that would play well when he doesn't have to be a leader.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by heep223

On the last part, we can definitely agree.

I just think that many people underestimate the impact of organizational culture, and additionally the importance that the current coaching staff and management team place on it.

And there's also something to be said for cultures like the Flames where players come in and be immersed and get it. Closest I can think of culture wise was Boston, cannot blame Kessel for not knowing what a real team feels like since you've been locked away in T.O. Change is good sometimes.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Who knows, many players change when getting traded.

For Kessel, I actually do think he'd thrive here playing top line minutes and not dealing with a media group like Toronto's. He seems like a player that would play well when he doesn't have to be a leader.

OK I don't necessarily disagree that a change of scenery could help and players can change, but that is a very expensive risk to take that could be extremely detrimental to the organization if it doesn't pan out.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by heep223

OK I don't necessarily disagree that a change of scenery could help and players can change, but that is a very expensive risk to take that could be extremely detrimental to the organization if it doesn't pan out.

It is a risk, but what trade isn't risky?

The cap should be going up throughout the remaining 7 years, so the 8m won't be as bad as we anticipate.

[Jason14h]

40 goal scorers don't grow on trees. As evidenced by the fact that Phil Kessel is not a 40 goal scorer. You can't criticize someone else for overemphasizing a negative characteristic of Kessel while overemphasizing his positive, Jason14h.

Fair enough, 36, 37 and 37. He has the 5th (I believe) most goals in the NHL over the past 5 seasons.

Also, you're ignoring the fact that the Leafs would be after Bennett, or a player of his calibre, to acquire Kessel. Fat lot of good that does us.

No I'm not. I was responding to this post. Not responding to a post saying anything about trading Bennett for Kessel.

Kessel in a Flames Uni, no matter what angle of being acquired, would SRT the Flames back for years, destroy any respect the team has built, snuff out Treliving's GM respectability as being a GM who thinks for himself, and force Burke into an even darker shadow amongst the hockey community.

[Resolute 14]

It's implied, Jason. People saying "15th, Backlund and Klimchuck" are missing the fact that Toronto would be asking for Bennett or Monahan or Gaudreau. We all expect Treliving to tell Shanahan to go pound sand, but this is what they would want, and this is what they would ask for.

And that, on top of every other reason, is why we don't do it, and why we shouldn't even entertain the thought.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Now who outside of the Toronto media says Kessel is never held accountable or unprofessional? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

The fitness thing is fine, it's been publicised all too well. And yet he still scores like no other in the last 5 years. and injuries? Nada. There's something to be said for that too.

It seems like you and couple of others are painting Kessel with a brush he does not deserve to be painted with. He's snapped off at the media because they're idiots out there and I applaud him for that. Sticks up for even the worst of his team mates (phaneuf) . I suppose that could be considered unprofessional. It is Phaneuf after all.

The point is, Kessel here in CGY would not be left in the open to the media and would not be a leadership core guy. for 8 million a year you'd hope he could be but with Gio, Monahan, Hudler, Wideman and Russel, he doesn't need to be.

For $3M less, Iggy will be better than Kessel in every which way you dice it. Leafs buys out the full remaining contract for Kessel and Flames get him for nothing - that'll be excellente!

[Coach]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Now who outside of the Toronto media says Kessel is never held accountable or unprofessional? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Are you saying he HAS been held accountable?

If so, I want him even less. If he has been held accountable and told what he needs to do to contribute to overall team success and not just his own, and he still hasn't applied any of it, it is very worrisome. And it goes against the idea that Hartley, Gio et al may be able to help.

[Jason14h]

It's implied, Jason. People saying "15th, Backlund and Klimchuck" are missing the fact that Toronto would be asking for Bennett or Monahan or Gaudreau. We all expect Treliving to tell Shanahan to go pound sand, but this is what they would want, and this is what they would ask for.

It isn't implied when the post exactly says "no matter the cost". Exactly the opposite.

If a player of Kessel's skill is available, you do all your homework. IF the trade price is too high, you decline and move on.

I don't think 1 poster has suggested trading Bennett. In fact, no-one outside of maybe a Toronto message board has posted this.

If Toronto wants to get out of the contract and he is actually a distraction no one will be giving up that return, and the price will drop.