Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[nik-]

I'm not religious and I find athiests annoying. I guess that means I think I'm superior? Preaching is preaching and it annoys me from both sides.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'd argue the opposite. It's atheists who believe that life doesn't matter. We're random chance and when we die it's over, all of us will die and everything we did will be for naught. Hiding in a foxhole is counterintuitive to that, it's trying to preserve a meaningless life. Of course that could be argued that we can't get over the self-preservation trait we've received through millenniums of evolution, but it's only non-atheists that believe life has meaning. To try and protect it seems to be more aligned with non-atheist beliefs than atheist beliefs.

You're confusing atheism with nihilism. I'm an atheist, but I very much value my limited time alive and hope to leave the Earth in a better state than when I was born into it.

"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."
-Carl Sagan

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cracher

I would think the opposite. Life matters more when you are nothing but worm-food afterwards.

I can't reconcile what I believe are very opposite arguments. If there's no higher-power, or what have you, life is just random chance. Particles that formed a certain way a long time ago, we live, we die. What we did when we were alive doesn't matter, maybe our kids will love us, but they will die too. Eventually everything will die, the sun will go out and nothing we did mattered. We may have had fun, we may have felt good thanks to chemicals like dopamine, but when we die we wont 'remember' any of that - we'll be gone.

When you give life some sort of meaning, I don't understand how you can say you are an atheist.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I can't reconcile what I believe are very opposite arguments. If there's no higher-power, or what have you, life is just random chance. Particles that formed a certain way a long time ago, we live, we die. What we did when we were alive doesn't matter, maybe our kids will love us, but they will die too. Eventually everything will die, the sun will go out and nothing we did mattered. We may have had fun, we may have felt good thanks to chemicals like dopamine, but when we die we wont 'remember' any of that - we'll be gone.

When you give life some sort of meaning, I don't understand how you can say you are an atheist.

It's probably because what you believe is not correct. I'm really not sure how having a deity who you can't even prove exists count as meaning in life. Life is pretty much fundamentally about surviving, and the deity helps you in no way with that. You may think it does, but logic and fact say otherwise.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I hope to leave the Earth in a better state than when I was born into it.

Why?

Not to go off track and definitely not trying to be disrespectful. But why? Earth will eventually be destroyed, every thing that ever lived will cease to exist. At that point it will be like none of us existed. So what's the meaning?

[Ducay]

Can we drop the existential crisis garbage and focus back onto the incident as it develops

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

is that ever true!

I find athiests most aggressive and keen to spew their view of religion.

Yes. Arguing for rational thought, even if rudely and uncooperative, and relentlessly (which of course is just a vocal minority) is certainly the same as killing in the name of ones religion or starting religious wars (again another small minority, but way different acts).

Do you even think before you type?

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'd argue the opposite. It's atheists who believe that life doesn't matter. We're random chance and when we die it's over, all of us will die and everything we did will be for naught. Hiding in a foxhole is counterintuitive to that, it's trying to preserve a meaningless life. Of course that could be argued that we can't get over the self-preservation trait we've received through millenniums of evolution, but it's only non-atheists that believe life has meaning. To try and protect it seems to be more aligned with non-atheist beliefs than atheist beliefs.

Doesn't mean those people believe life doesn't matter. In fact it often means the opposite. That it's to be treasured because it's the only shot one gets. As well, without afterlife to reward or punish you, it makes a good act that much more meaningful. To do good for the sake of doing good is far more moral than doing it for a reward (or out of fear of being punished). Not to say all religious people fall into that trap, but some obviously do. That trap doesn't even exist for an atheist.

Not an attack at you, the whole 'there are only believers' and 'there are only non believers' in foxholes thing is so stupid, both sides are at fault and just need to let the other side be. Course, I think I remember which side started it... Just to comment on your comment. Atheists DO NOT believe life doesn't matter.

[Ducay]

French police's request for witnesses / help that went out. Only the 2 brothers on it

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's probably because what you believe is not correct. I'm really not sure how having a deity who you can't even prove exists count as meaning in life. Life is pretty much fundamentally about surviving, and the deity helps you in no way with that. You may think it does, but logic and fact say otherwise.

Who said I believe in a deity?

Life was random chance, a couple carbon particles were formed and life was made. Some reason it survived and split, in doing so life began but surviving is not it's meaning. There is no meaning to life, not without something else.

[Ducay]

Christ, take it to PM you guys.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I'm not too familiar with how open borders are in Europe but I wonder if they could have gotten out of the country already.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm not too familiar with how open borders are in Europe but I wonder if they could have gotten out of the country already.

You can just drive across the borders in the Schengen Area. Which is basically continental Europe from Portugal to Poland and the Scandanavian countries.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm not too familiar with how open borders are in Europe but I wonder if they could have gotten out of the country already.

Easily

[Ducay]

I've seen reports of potential activity near Belgian border, but as always, mis-information is the name of the game at these times.

edit: see my post below. One possible suspect turned self in near Belgian border

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Dion

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'd argue the opposite. It's atheists who believe that life doesn't matter. We're random chance and when we die it's over, all of us will die and everything we did will be for naught. Hiding in a foxhole is counterintuitive to that, it's trying to preserve a meaningless life. Of course that could be argued that we can't get over the self-preservation trait we've received through millenniums of evolution, but it's only non-atheists that believe life has meaning. To try and protect it seems to be more aligned with non-atheist beliefs than atheist beliefs.

Why are we saying that a basic survival instinct is cowardly or counter intuitive. Religion or lack there of, I would be in a foxhole because I don't want to be shot.

[Ducay]

Confirmed the younger suspect (non-brother) is in custody after turning himself in. Policy keeping in custody although no charges yet placed. Note he was turned in at a town right beside Belgian border. Reims (where theyre from and Police are still searching) is halfway between there and Paris.

He shares same last name as the wife of one of the brothers, so thinking is he is the brother in law.

More info should start to come in closer to 11 when day gets going over there.

[MRCboicgy]

Let's keep it on topic folks. Some religious talk will be here, since the alleged perpetrators did it in the name of their beliefs, but other than that, it should stay on topic.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

Disprove what? That people would still kill each other if religion didn't exist? People have been killing each other since the dawn of time. Mankind will always find reasons to take the lives of others.

Fairly easy to prove these particular 12 people would be alive today if it wasn't for religion.

Yes people will kill each other but the more senseless murders have always been done in the name of religion/racism.

If you don't believe it just imagine the 8 or so million slaughtered immediately if hezbollah ever got a nuke.

[mile]

nm

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Confirmed the younger suspect (non-brother) is in custody after turning himself in. Policy keeping in custody although no charges yet placed. Note he was turned in at a town right beside Belgian border. Reims (where theyre from and Police are still searching) is halfway between there and Paris.

He shares same last name as the wife of one of the brothers, so thinking is he is the brother in law.

More info should start to come in closer to 11 when day gets going over there.

Some media reports are that he turn himself in fast because he is innocent and classmates at his school are providing an alibi.