Traffic delays up to 20% alongside downtown cycle lanes, city predicts

[Addick]

Originally Posted by GaiJin

I am saying when you are talking about percentages, its a mistake to expect that the entire population is capable or has the flexibility of lifestyle to use a bike, so to say its 4.whatever of the population, that is not true, its 4.whatever of the people that have the time, ability, type of job , lack of outside commitments that are truly countable as possible cyclists.

Is anyone saying that the entire population is able to cycle, or are people saying the numbers are higher than one might think? Appropriate attire may not help everyone but it could help those that live closer to the core and do not have to drop off kids at daycare or use a private automobile during the day. If that number is not 100%, is that a failure?

When answering that question, considering for how many people driving is not an option (e.g. children, the elderly, the disabled or people who cannot afford it).

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Naw, I don't think you're lazy.

Just the government has chosen to disincentivize your lifestyle for the first time in decades, like it has done to cyclists and pedestrians for all that time.

Take your 20% delay and stop whining.

Disencentivize a lifestyle? Whining? If you cared to read my posts, I am onside with the cycle path and I hope it is filled to capacity with happy, safe bikers. I cannot be one of those bikers, because of actual life commitments, not life-style. I live in a city that is incredibly expensive and spread out. I have kids that I need to take care of, and actually want to see at the end of the day.
It is the arrogant, condescending posts like the one quoted that creates the environment where it is impossible to have a decent conversation.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Disencentivize a lifestyle? Whining? If you cared to read my posts, I am onside with the cycle path and I hope it is filled to capacity with happy, safe bikers. I cannot be one of those bikers, because of actual life commitments, not life-style. I live in a city that is incredibly expensive and spread out. I have kids that I need to take care of, and actually want to see at the end of the day.
It is the arrogant, condescending posts like the one quoted that creates the environment where it is impossible to have a decent conversation.

As a side note, has anyone ever been or seen a biker ticketed for unsafe riding or clearly breaking the laws? It happens a lot downtown, just today a biker rode alongside traffic stopped at a light, and pulled right in front of everyone at the end, slowing the entire street down. Why he wouldn't stay on the shoulder is totally beyond me.

But you see people without helmets, cutting across lanes, changing between street/sidewalk all the time. I know theres similar behavior with cars but you often see people pulled over and ticketed often. Is there any enforcement of the rules with bikes?

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

As a side note, has anyone ever been or seen a biker ticketed for unsafe riding or clearly breaking the laws? It happens a lot downtown, just today a biker rode alongside traffic stopped at a light, and pulled right in front of everyone at the end, slowing the entire street down. Why he wouldn't stay on the shoulder is totally beyond me.

Many bikers want the cardio benefit of cycling so slowing down or stopping is not an option to them.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

As a side note, has anyone ever been or seen a biker ticketed for unsafe riding or clearly breaking the laws? It happens a lot downtown, just today a biker rode alongside traffic stopped at a light, and pulled right in front of everyone at the end, slowing the entire street down. Why he wouldn't stay on the shoulder is totally beyond me.

But you see people without helmets, cutting across lanes, changing between street/sidewalk all the time. I know theres similar behavior with cars but you often see people pulled over and ticketed often. Is there any enforcement of the rules with bikes?

Actually, the cyclist shouldn't have been riding along the shoulder past stopped cars in the first place. He should take a lane, like all the other vehicles, and stop in the back of the line cars and wait his turn, just like all the other vehicles. Basically, behave exactly like a car. It's not rocket science, but it's remarkable how many cyclists don't seem to understand.

However, helmets are not mandatory for adults in Alberta.

[northcrunk]

Bloody pinko-commie bikers.

[habernac]

Traffic delays may be up 20%, whining is up 500%. Cyclists can't win, whether or not there are safe places for them to ride.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by darklord700

Many bikers want the cardio benefit of cycling so slowing down or stopping is not an option to them.

That's a pretty thin justification for running lights and weaving back and forth from the road to the sidewalk. It's basically saying that I should be able to run a red in my car because it uses less gas than stopping.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Actually, the cyclist shouldn't have been riding along the shoulder past stopped cars in the first place. He should take a lane, like all the other vehicles, and stop in the back of the line cars and wait his turn, just like all the other vehicles. Basically, behave exactly like a car. It's not rocket science, but it's remarkable how many cyclists don't seem to understand.

I'm confused if bikers are pedestrians or motorized vehicles. I see bikers making left turns on in downtown all the time. In theory, they should get off the bike, push the bike like pedestrians and cross the road one way and cross the road the other way. Then get on the bike when they are in the the correct lane. I don't think I have seen one biker do that.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I'm confused if bikers are pedestrians or motorized vehicles. I see bikers making left turns on in downtown all the time. In theory, they should get off the bike, push the bike like pedestrians and cross the road one way and cross the road the other way. Then get on the bike when they are in the the correct lane. I don't think I have seen one biker do that.

In theory, they should take up the entire left turn lane as a vehicle, and turn like a vehicle.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I'm confused if bikers are pedestrians or motorized vehicles. I see bikers making left turns on in downtown all the time. In theory, they should get off the bike, push the bike like pedestrians and cross the road one way and cross the road the other way. Then get on the bike when they are in the the correct lane. I don't think I have seen one biker do that.

They're considered vehicles. For a left turn, they should get in the turning lane, signal, and turn. Just like a car.

There isn't a separate book of regulations for cycling. They follow all the same rules (and have all the same rights) as a car.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They're considered vehicles. For a left turn, they should get in the turning lane, signal, and turn. Just like a car.

There isn't a separate book of regulations for cycling. They follow all the same rules (and have all the same rights) as a car.

Except for being ticketed, as far as I can tell.

Downtown, cyclists generally change between pedestrian and car for their own convenience.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by PIGL

Bunk - thanks for your reply. I don't think everything is about me - sorry if it came across that way. Thanks for the article on the gender side of this. I hadn't appreciated that element of it. I understand that the tracks might not be for people like me but I just don't think the cost/benefit of this makes much sense for the reasons being expressed in this forum and because there simply won't be enough people using the cycle tracks in this city in this climate to justify the expense (which, when you add up the cost of the Pilot and the ongoing capital and maintenance costs will be tens of millions of dollars, which doesn't include the potential costs associated with loss of business next to the Tracks or those associated with increased traffic volume). This is an inefficient use of taxpayer money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fair enough, but the investment and proportion of road space is basically equal to the proportion of users (~1.5%). It may be tens of millions over years, but our overall transportation capital spending is many billions over years.

With regard to business - it's been shown over and over that the presence of cycle tracks usually is a net benefit to adjacent retail business. In a place like a downtown there's a perception that most of their customers park in front and use the business, but in fact it's infinitesimal. The vast, vast majority are already there ( having got there by car and parked long term or have taken transit etc) and walk to the the business at some point in their day. Even if they are drive in customers, there is no net loss of on-street parking - people are willing to walk a block if there's not a space right in front of the door.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Except for being ticketed, as far as I can tell.

Downtown, cyclists generally change between pedestrian and car for their own convenience.

Having adequate infrastructure doesn't eliminate this behavior, but it does make it a lot better.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Having adequate infrastructure doesn't eliminate this behavior, but it does make it a lot better.

As would adequate enforcement of the rules, I would propose.

Better roads with higher speed limits would also reduce speeding.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

As would adequate enforcement of the rules, I would propose.

Better roads with higher speed limits would also reduce speeding.

It would be neat to see (and probably impossible to calculate) what percentage of bikers get a ticket versus percentage of motorists in a day.

Wonder if they'd be close? Would it be safe to assume that in the grand scheme of things both modes of transport have very low ticket rates simply due to the numbers involved and only so much law enforcement to go around?

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Bloody pinko-commie bikers.

I felt the same as I cracked and drove to work today and got stuck behind a biker on 1st St. Yes, I was exactly that guy yesterday so I say this in jest.

Originally Posted by darklord700

Many bikers want the cardio benefit of cycling so slowing down or stopping is not an option to them.

If they want the cardio benefit they should stick to the pathways. Bike lanes, biking with traffic, etc. should be 100% about transportation.

Originally Posted by darklord700

I'm confused if bikers are pedestrians or motorized vehicles. I see bikers making left turns on in downtown all the time. In theory, they should get off the bike, push the bike like pedestrians and cross the road one way and cross the road the other way. Then get on the bike when they are in the the correct lane. I don't think I have seen one biker do that.

Admitedly, I don't know exactly what's right. These past few days I've just been behaving like a car except staying on the shoulder so cars can pass. At red lights I don't jump to the front of the line and instead wait my turn on the shoulder behind the car I'd been following. Only once have I needed to make a left on a busy street (17th onto 2nd). It felt a little awkward, but I advanced right into the middle of the intersection in the left lane, held my arm out in the left turn signal, and waited until I could turn. Was that right?

[northcrunk]

When someone can bike faster than 20 mph I will consider them a vehicle. Right now they are just an annoyance (not the bike couriers, they at least know how to ride in traffic). The bike in to work crowd is just rediculous. Going 10mps on their banana seat bike wearing a skirt and heels. Nobody wants to smell you after you bike in either unless you can have a shower at work.

[_Q_]

Yeah this parking thing is a bit odd to me. I've never driven by a downtown business, found no parking in front and said "f'k it I'll go somewhere else". I'll usually Park several blocks away and walk if I have to.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

It would be neat to see (and probably impossible to calculate) what percentage of bikers get a ticket versus percentage of motorists in a day.

Wonder if they'd be close? Would it be safe to assume that in the grand scheme of things both modes of transport have very low ticket rates simply due to the numbers involved and only so much law enforcement to go around?

It'd be a major problem if we were dedicating proportionate resources to ticketing both cyclists and motorists. One group of people is responsible for the sixth leading cause of death in the country. Motor vehicles accounted for 2,000 deaths, 10,000 serious injuries and 166,000 injuries in Canada. Deaths due to cyclist negligence are real but as a share of total trips it would be much much smaller than vehicle travel.