I'm not even going to comment on any possible 3 way. I'll just be putting my foot in mouth and we all know how that ends up. I have a hard time seeing Flames and Canucks coming together on anything close to that. But if any team needed a boost it would be the Canucks. They could learn from what the Flames went through. So many years of being blinded by Kippers awesomness and Iggy's star power. They could come up with a decent package. Or even the leafs could too, that's another team that could make a bold move.
I'd have an easier time seeing the Flames and Leafs doing a three way with all the history between them.
I'm not even going to comment on any possible 3 way. I'll just be putting my foot in mouth and we all know how that ends up. I have a hard time seeing Flames and Canucks coming together on anything close to that. But if any team needed a boost it would be the Canucks. They could learn from what the Flames went through. So many years of being blinded by Kippers awesomness and Iggy's star power. They could come up with a decent package. Or even the leafs could too, that's another team that could make a bold move.
I'd have an easier time seeing the Flames and Leafs doing a three way with all the history between them.
All this talk of doing three ways...
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That's fine. Florida makes a couple trades. Moves down twice.
Simply not a three way deal. That's all I meant not making sense - calling it that. It's not
Sorry, bad word usage on my behalf. I probably misinterpreted the earlier post too. But it seems like you have a good grip on the intent. Thanks.
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Craig Conroy. The guy empties his head when he's on the radio. He told all that it was Todd Button that made the Gaudreau call, he said he and Brad have a guy, and didn't mention having to see what Brian wants, or Brian will make the final call once.
That speaks volumes to me. If there was trouble this man would let it slip.
The Flames have placed more trust in Button in the last several drafts, and now have added a good young talent evaluating former assistant GM.
Burke is there to help and have a say, but I don't get the feeling he's calling the shots. I think he's firmly in the backseat and objecting if he hates something.
Time will tell though
All I said was Burke has been good at making his high picks. Flamezilla and you seem to have this idea that Burke will sit back and let Treliving and Button make all the decisions. I disagree. I want to point out that there's a difference between Burke calling the shots and Burke running the show, you seem to be caught up in the latter.
The way I see it is that Button runs the draft. That's his job. He's the one in the room working with his team of scouts to come up with a list. If Treliving and Burke has an opinion about a player, I expect them to give their opinion and ultimately I think if there is a battle over who should be ranked higher and Burke is convinced about a player, I expect Burke's opinion to win out.
Where I really think Burke will come into play is whether to trade up. If Burke and his staff are convinced that there is one player in the draft that is head and shoulders above everyone, I expect Treliving to negotiate the deal and Burke making the final call. That's how this management structure works.
Burke's job isn't to run the business side of things, hire a GM, and let him make all the decisions. He's there to supervise and all big decisions have to go through Burke for approval. This draft is going to go a long way in helping to rebuild this franchise. There is absolutely no way Burke sits back and just rubber stamps and he shouldn't. No his role isn't to be front and center. He shouldn't be the one on the phone negotiating with teams on trading up. That's Treliving's job. But Burke is there asking questions and deciding whether to give Treliving the go ahead or not.
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He's probably a 4,5,6 and on the 2nd PP unit? No idea. Brodie's a #2 in Calgary but on a good team is he a top-pairing d-man? If the Flames see Ekblad as the best player in the draft who can anchor our top pairing for the next 10-15 years, then I think they're justified in going after him.
All of this has made for interesting discussion, if nothing else.
The way I see it is that Button runs the draft. That's his job. He's the one in the room working with his team of scouts to come up with a list. If Treliving and Burke has an opinion about a player, I expect them to give their opinion and ultimately I think if there is a battle over who should be ranked higher and Burke is convinced about a player, I expect Burke's opinion to win out.
Where I really think Burke will come into play is whether to trade up. If Burke and his staff are convinced that there is one player in the draft that is head and shoulders above everyone, I expect Treliving to negotiate the deal and Burke making the final call. That's how this management structure works.
Burke's job isn't to run the business side of things, hire a GM, and let him make all the decisions. He's there to supervise and all big decisions have to go through Burke for approval. This draft is going to go a long way in helping to rebuild this franchise. There is absolutely no way Burke sits back and just rubber stamps and he shouldn't. No his role isn't to be front and center. He shouldn't be the one on the phone negotiating with teams on trading up. That's Treliving's job. But Burke is there asking questions and deciding whether to give Treliving the go ahead or not.
First off I don't know ... just guessing.
But my gut says Button runs the draft almost exclusively for rounds 3 and on. He gives his view and recommendation on the first pick, and maybe the first pick in the second round, and then it falls to Burke and Treliving to make the final call.
How does that work? Anyone's guess.
However I would guess that Treliving has a very strong view as he's been on the road scouting for the Coyotes for months and Burke has admittedly not even seen the top three. That's telling to me. If he isn't hitting the pavement then he isn't calling the shots.
My gut also says Treliving wants to know what his boss thinks. As they've gone through the process of what iffing the top picks he's had a strong view but asked and entertained Burke's view strongly. The man has built a cup championship and he's not stupid enough to ignore it.
I also think Burke hasn't gotten as far as he has without listening to his top scout (and now his GM) and is fully prepared to discuss and quarrel and ultimately go with a passioned view from Treliving.
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if the buffalo pick is in play, all that would have to happen is for florida to go off board and not pick ekblad, and look out for calgary to move up ahead of edmonton to grab him. For buffalo not a ton of difference between 2nd and 4th, and they likely don't need ekblad anyway. Could be a very mutually beneficial swap made on the draft floor. could likely be done for the 34th overall and nothing more IMO.
However I would guess that Treliving has a very strong view as he's been on the road scouting for the Coyotes for months and Burke has admittedly not even seen the top three. That's telling to me. If he isn't hitting the pavement then he isn't calling the shots.
My gut also says Treliving wants to know what his boss thinks. As they've gone through the process of what iffing the top picks he's had a strong view but asked and entertained Burke's view strongly. The man has built a cup championship and he's not stupid enough to ignore it.
I also think Burke hasn't gotten as far as he has without listening to his top scout (and now his GM) and is fully prepared to discuss and quarrel and ultimately go with a passioned view from Treliving.
Like I said, I do think Button runs the draft. so I agree with you there. It's really the first pick that I feel Burke will influence. It's a good point about Burke not having watched enough of the top prospects play, that's one reason why I said that I think where Burke will really come in whether to trade up and at what price.
As for Burke listening to his scouts and management team, he certainly listens and defers to his scouts and his management team but he will disagree with them. He supposedly wanted to draft Jack Johnson but his scouts convinced him to draft Bobby Ryan instead, but that was still Burke's call. It has been rumored that he refused to make the Luongo deal despite his entire management team including Nonis telling him to make it. He was not swayed.
I guess where we really differ is our definition of "calling the shots." To me the guy who calls the shots is the guy who makes the final decision. So involved or not, deference or not, Burke is the one who ultimately makes the decision and you got to convince him that what you want to do is the right decision.
He's probably a 4,5,6 and on the 2nd PP unit? No idea. Brodie's a #2 in Calgary but on a good team is he a top-pairing d-man? If the Flames see Ekblad as the best player in the draft who can anchor our top pairing for the next 10-15 years, then I think they're justified in going after him.
All of this has made for interesting discussion, if nothing else.
TJ Brodie this year, compared to other defensemen.
Top 50 in scoring
Top 25 in ice time (big minutes while maintaining an even +/- on a team with a -32 goal differential)
Top 50 in blocked shots
Top 20 in unblocked shot attempts allowed per 60min (among defensemen with at least 500 minutes played)
Top 5 in possession (shot-attempt differential) relative to the team. The Flames were over 8% better with Brodie on the ice.
Top 50 in overall possession. 51.5% on a 46% team is miraculous.
Odd one, but 2nd in the league (behind Olympian Dan Hamhuis) in penalty differential ie. penalties drawn minus penalties taken, with +8. Only 20 d-men actually had a positive differential, and Dion Phaneuf was a league-worst -29.
Sure, he's not a top-pairing player on a lot of the league's top teams right now. But, there's nothing showing me that he isn't a legitimate top 40 or 50 defender in the league. And at age 23, I see no reason to believe he can't keep improving. Trading him to move up 3 slots, just to have first pick of a group of 4 reasonably evenly rated prospects? Ugh.
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And at age 23, I see no reason to believe he can't keep improving. Trading him to move up 3 slots, just to have first pick of a group of 4 reasonably evenly rated prospects? Ugh.
We don't know Brodie will improve any more than Ekblad will not improve.
Consensus has four even rated prospects but we have no idea if that is the way the Flames feel.
I'm not in favour of trading Brodie. I think we should trade from a position of strength (left wing). But I won't go hysterical if the Flames trade a valuable player to move to #1 OA.
You think Backlund+Hudler is worth a top 5 pick and a 2nd?
I am sorry if I am reading that wrong but in no world are those 2 players close to get that package. Backlund might be worth a mid first and Hudler a late first and so-so prospect.
point is i'm not doing a deal unless we are giving up next to nothing....
no high end prospects or our first in play. The deal is heavily in our favour because I am not willing to give anything up.
We don't know Brodie will improve any more than Ekblad will not improve.
Consensus has four even rated prospects but we have no idea if that is the way the Flames feel.
I'm not in favour of trading Brodie. I think we should trade from a position of strength (left wing). But I won't go hysterical if the Flames trade a valuable player to move to #1 OA.
There's no consensus that Ekblad projects to even be what Brodie is now. He's anywhere from franchise D to second pairing. It would be punching a hole in our future in the hope of address the hole we just created. It's illogical.
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The way I look at it, Treliving is the GM. The GM makes the final call on trades and draft picks. Burke is there to set the stage and priorities of the team's future, give his opinions and make maybe make a suggestion before the GM does something really stupid.
I saw a video of how the BJs run there team coming up to the draft and the GM had the final say. Should be the same with the Flames.
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The way I look at it, Treliving is the GM. The GM makes the final call on trades and draft picks. Burke is there to set the stage and priorities of the team's future, give his opinions and make maybe make a suggestion before the GM does something really stupid.
I saw a video of how the BJs run there team coming up to the draft and the GM had the final say. Should be the same with the Flames.
That's not how the structure works for most of the teams and I really don't know why some are so concerned about this. Burke is the President of hockey operations for the club and is responsible for all hockey operations decisions. It's the same with other clubs with this structure. The whole thing is a contradiction. The President of hockey operations is suppose to be given full autonomy by the owners. While the GM is suppose to be given full autonomy by the President. The fact of the matter is that the GM will be given as much autonomy as the President of hockey operations gives him.
Burke talked many times about him guiding his GM yet Burke talked about the GM being in charge. How much guidance is up to him. I listened to Benning's interview and alluded to the fact that ultimately it was Linden's decision, yet Linden talked about giving Benning full autonomy . It's the same thing in Colorado.
Things might be different in Columbus where Davidson has really taken on more of a background role in recent years. But back when Davidson ran the Blues, he always let Kekalainen run the draft.
I am pretty sure that if you interviewed Edwards he will say that Burke is in charge and has final say on everything. You ask Burke and he'll say that Treliving is in charge and he's just in the background giving him guidance. In reality, the owner(s) are the ones who are really in charge, but there's little point discussing this.
I am pretty sure that if you interviewed Edwards he will say that Burke is in charge and has final say on everything. You ask Burke and he'll say that Treliving is in charge and he's just in the background giving him guidance. In reality, the owner(s) are the ones who are really in charge, but there's little point discussing this.
Could be ...
Bottom line for me has always been the fact there's no salary cap on big hockey minds and a good open discussion of all possibilities with an open minded person making the final decision is a great model to have. Beats the pants off a guy just making the call and everyone fearing him.
If that first case is Calgary, they're in great shape.
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