[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[Temporary_User]

Can Chicago sign him after August 15th? Would they be penalized for doing so?

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Can Chicago sign him after August 15th? Would they be penalized for doing so?

I would assume that the pick would only be awarded once they sign elsewhere.

[Caged Great]

I could also see Hayes as a part of a trade for a veteran player as a possibility. A Johns + Hayes for Hudler might be a good idea if we keep Cammy. (just spitballing)

[puckluck2]

Trading Hudler? Why? He's veen everything and more.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I wish college players could ...

a) sign during their college days but not accept money
b) go back into the draft while in college after two years if they haven't signed

would equalize things a bit ... they wouldn't fully develop and then have so much leverage.

How about if a college player refuses a bona fide NHL entry-level contract offer, he forgoes the right to sign an NHL entry-level deal with any other team for another 2 years. The player would still be able to sign and play in the AHL on an AHL deal, but it will remove a lot of the incentive to bail on his current team.

The way I see it the more player agents start to use this loophole the less incentive teams will have to draft college players, which really would be a shame.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Yes, but in order to get the "better" prospect you have to give to get. You need to be looking at the Flames doing the Erixon trade again for the approximate return. That was a pair of 2nds + a decent depth prospect that would look to be a 3rd/4th liner. I'm only saying to send 1 2nd, + a similar 3rd/4th line guy (not necessary Ferland, just didn't want to type out 10 names that'd be candidates).

If anything they'd probably want a Granlund or Wotherspoon or something like that.

Not sure Hayes is a much better prospect than Granlund, Wotherspoon or Ferland personally. So there's no way I'd deal any of those guys + a 2nd for him. We can just wait til August to see if he goes to UFA and try to sign him then. Or deal a 2nd plus somebody that isn't one of our top prospects.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getbak

Probably because it's such a rare situation that requires so many exact variables to be in place that it's not really worth the effort to change it. Teams still hold a player's rights for four years in that situation, so it's still longer than a kid who goes the major junior route.

But the Schultz loophole isn't the problem (as you say, doesn't happen much).

The problem is that, even though teams have their rights for 4 years, you can't sign them while they are in the NCAA, so all you really have is a few months. Makes it too easy for them to wait and go FA.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not sure Hayes is a better prospect than Granlund, Wotherspoon or Ferland personally. So there's no way I'd deal any of those guys + a 2nd for him. We can just wait til August to see if he goes to UFA and try to sign him then. Or deal a 2nd plus somebody that isn't one of our top prospects.

Agreed - no way I give up any of those guys.

But I'd give up a 2nd and a 4th or 5th (or something like that) to get him signed prior to August.

Obviously, you only do that deal with permission to talk to him and ensure that he'll sign with you.

[sureLoss]

Would really any NHL team give up a 2nd+ for him? All they get for giving up those kind of assets to sign him sooner is that he would be available to go to their summer development camp.

I think his agent realizes the offers aren't likely to change after August 15th (his contract will still be bound by ELC) if he waits until all teams can put an offer in on him without having to pay the Blackhawks a "toll fee" to talk to him. If the Flames are truly one of his top destinations, there should be little worry.

Knight was a different story, 4th is an easier pill to swallow than a 2nd+.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Not sure Hayes is a better prospect than Granlund, Wotherspoon or Ferland personally. So there's no way I'd deal any of those guys + a 2nd for him. We can just wait til August to see if he goes to UFA and try to sign him then. Or deal a 2nd plus somebody that isn't one of our top prospects.

Exactly my thoughts as well. Just trying to take the perspective of the Hawks on that. If we had a solidly producing 1st round pick that wanted out, we would be asking for something decent like the Erixon trade. That's what I'm basing my thoughts on. Not saying it would be a good idea on our part.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Trading Hudler? Why? He's veen everything and more.

Stephen Johns looks like he's going to be a beast 6'4" Sieloff type D-man. not knocking Hudler at all, I just really like Johns a lot. The exact type of truculent beast D-man that we're lacking.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Would really any NHL team give up a 2nd+ for him? All they get for giving up those kind of assets to sign him sooner is that he would be available to go to their summer development camp.

I think his agent realizes the offers aren't likely to change after August 15th (his contract will still be bound by ELC) if he waits until all teams can put an offer in on him without having to pay the Blackhawks a "toll fee" to talk to him. If the Flames are truly one of his top destinations, there should be little worry.

Knight was a different story, 4th is an easier pill to swallow than a 2nd+.

You do it to close the deal. If you wait until August, you're on equal footing with 28 other teams

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You do it to close the deal. If you wait until August, you're on equal footing with 28 other teams

Not if he really wants to play with Gaudreau and Arnold. 2nd+ is a ridiculous ammount to pay for a pending UFA's rights. Better established UFA NHL players weren't even traded for that much.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Not if he really wants to play with Gaudreau and Arnold. 2nd+ is a ridiculous ammount to pay for a pending UFA's rights. Better established UFA NHL players weren't even traded for that much.

Just saying, that's why you would do it. But the question is: is he worth paying that much? If you don't think so, you wait and take your chances.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Not if he really wants to play with Gaudreau and Arnold. 2nd+ is a ridiculous ammount to pay for a pending UFA's rights. Better established UFA NHL players weren't even traded for that much.

Yeah exactly, didn't we only pay a 3rd rounder for the rights of Bouwmeester? Not sure how much Leopold's rights were worth at the time.

[Caged Great]

If Hayes wasn't a 1st round player, his rights probably would cost in the same neighbourhood as Knight's. Maybe a 3rd instead at most.

If the Hawks do nothing, they get a 2nd. So we're likely looking at Aug. 15 for a resolution on this at the earliest. The only way we'd get him sooner is if we'd give a 2nd + something otherwise they'd wait (the 2nd would be in next year's draft and that draft is a lot deeper than this one)

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Not if he really wants to play with Gaudreau and Arnold.

Hayes really shouldn't be basing his decision on the trio playing together in the NHL, because honestly, what are the chances of that happening? While all solid, neither of the 3 are can't-miss players...getting them all on the parent club at the same time, never mind on the same line, is long-shot at best when you think about all the variables that go into playing (development curves, coaching decisions, trades, injuries, etc.). How many of us work with the same people we wen't to college with?

He needs to do what's good for his future regardless of who he played with in college. They can hang out and reminisce in the summer.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hayes really shouldn't be basing his decision on the trio playing together in the NHL, because honestly, what are the chances of that happening? While all solid, neither of the 3 are can't-miss players...getting them all on the parent club at the same time, never mind on the same line, is long-shot at best when you think about all the variables that go into playing (development curves, coaching decisions, trades, injuries, etc.). How many of us work with the same people we wen't to college with?

He needs to do what's good for his future regardless of who he played with in college. They can hang out and reminisce in the summer.

you're doing it wrong

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Yeah exactly, didn't we only pay a 3rd rounder for the rights of Bouwmeester? Not sure how much Leopold's rights were worth at the time.

True. But keep in mind you're talking about a player on an ELC here. You're getting 7 years before he costs FA prices.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hayes really shouldn't be basing his decision on the trio playing together in the NHL, because honestly, what are the chances of that happening? While all solid, neither of the 3 are can't-miss players...getting them all on the parent club at the same time, never mind on the same line, is long-shot at best when you think about all the variables that go into playing (development curves, coaching decisions, trades, injuries, etc.). How many of us work with the same people we wen't to college with?

He needs to do what's good for his future regardless of who he played with in college. They can hang out and reminisce in the summer.

The Flames might also be his best path to the NHL. Our RW depth is kind of pathetic. It's Poirier and.......

With that kind of competition, he could probably push his way into the NHL quickly, especially if Poirier spends any time at the AHL next year.