[Rumour] NHL and Seattle talking about expansion fees (~$225M)

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by sun

Who would the Flames protect if there was a hypothetical expansion draft this offseason?

Sean Monahan and Peter Maher.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

expansion draft

this was how it worked last time.

What about AHL guys and prospects?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by sun

Who would the Flames protect if there was a hypothetical expansion draft this offseason?

I will make suggestions when I figure out more on the expansion rules lol

Originally Posted by MattyC

What about AHL guys and prospects?

This is the part I am fuzzy on, I seem to remember there was some sort of games played/age restrictions where prospects more or less didn't need to be protected.

10 NHL games played is the number in my head but I am not sure if that is accurate.

[Alberta_Beef]

Okay some digging paid off. I found an old HF thread asking about the expansion rules from nearly a decade ago.

We already knew this:

26 of the 28 teams existing in the league at the time of the draft were each allowed to protect either one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards. The Atlanta Thrashers and Nashville Predators had their entire rosters protected, as they were the two newest franchises in the league, only being in existence for one and two years respectively.

I found that 1st and 2nd year pros (AHL and NHL experience) were ineligible to be taken in the expansion draft. So guys like Monahan, Reinhart, Knight... etc would be exempt. An example given was Colin White who at the time had just 21 NHL games but had spent 2+ years in the AHL prior to his call-up was eligible to be picked so the Devils had to protect him.

But back then there were no ELCs, so there are some grey areas. Joni Ortio for example is in year 3 of his ELC, but is only in his 2nd pro season. Another is Baertschi, he played a handful of games as an emergency recall but his ELC never kicked it so he is only in year 2 of 3 in his ELC, but has played in 3 different pro seasons. For the purposes of defining gray areas I have deemed Joni Ortio eligible and Baertschi ineligible based on the ELCs as I believe this is the criteria the NHL would now use.

So I have 2 lists.

Those eligible for an expansion draft (based on the rules used from 1998-2000):
My picks who I would protect are in bold

• Backlund, Mikael - Eligible
• Bouma, Lance - Eligible
• Breen, Christopher - Eligible
• Brodie, T.J. - Eligible
• Butler, Chris - Eligible
• Byron, Paul - Eligible
• Cammalleri, Mike - Eligible
• Colborne, Joe - Eligible
• Cundari, Mark - Eligible
• Eddy, David - Eligible
• Galiardi, T.J. - Eligible
• Giordano, Mark - Eligible
• Glencross, Curtis - Eligible
• Hudler, Jiri - Eligible
• Jones, Blair - Eligible
• Jones, David - Eligible
• MacDermid, Lane - Eligible
• MacDonald, Joey - Eligible
• Martin, James - Eligible
• McGrattan, Brian - Eligible
• O'Brien, Shane - Eligible
• Ortio, Joni - Eligible
• Ramo, Karri - Eligible
• Roy, Olivier - Eligible
• Russell, Kris - Eligible
• Smid, Ladislav - Eligible
• Smith, Derek - Eligible
• Stajan, Matt - Eligible
• Stempniak, Lee - Eligible
• Street, Ben - Eligible
• Westgarth, Kevin - Eligible
• Wideman, Dennis - Eligible

And those ineligible using those same rules:

• Baertschi, Sven - Ineligible
• Berra, Reto - Ineligible
• Billins, Chad - Ineligible
• Elson, Turner - Ineligible
• Ferland, Michael - Ineligible
• Granlund, Markus - Ineligible
• Hanowski, Ben - Ineligible
• Jooris, Josh - Ineligible
• Kanzig, Keegan - Ineligible
• Klimchuk, Morgan - Ineligible
• Knight, Corban - Ineligible
• Monahan, Sean - Ineligible
• Poirier, Emile - Ineligible
• Ramage, John - Ineligible
• Reinhart, Max - Ineligible
• Sieloff, Patrick - Ineligible
• Wotherspoon, Tyler - Ineligible

[Vulcan]

I might protect Ortio over Ramo. I have bad memories over letting Giguere go.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I might protect Ortio over Ramo.

Fair enough, but I think it's not an issue.

Then again when an expansion finally does come around Ortio could bein the NHL and Gillies could be in a position where he needs to be protected

[Alberta_Beef]

The new CBA has changed things so much I am not so sure that an expansion draft would be at all like those rules were back then.

Back then teams made under the table deals to be compensated for not picking certain players, or would draft certain players just to trade them. The league would most definitely not allow this kind of thing today.

Another thing that was done (at least in 1998) was pending UFAs were chosen by the expansion clubs that they knew they had no chance to sign just so that they received an compensatory draft pick for losing the players (Nashville received 2nd round picks for losing Mike Ritcher and Uwe Krupp to free agency), this would no longer be a factor anymore either so there is no reason for a team to protect a pending UFA unless they knew he was going to re-sign.

Lastly and most importantly is the now oh so common no movement clause. Would clubs be forced to protect any player with a NMC? Could the player agree to waive his NMC to enter the expansion draft?

The NMC aspect could have massive implications. For example JS Giguere with the Avs has a full NMC in his contract, if the Avs are forced to protect him in an expansion draft (despite being a pending UFA) it would pretty much force them to protect 2 goaltenders so they don't lose Varlamov. Under the old rules this would mean the team could only protect 2 goaltenders, 3 defensemen and 7 forwards instead of 1 goaltender, 5 defensemen and 9 forwards.

Man this could get fun!

[Calgary4LIfe]

The cap will definitely factor into the expansion draft this time around as well. It is going to be very different than what happened in the last expansion draft.

If I was picking, I would purposefully look for expiring contracts that may end up good value at the trade deadline, for instance. You leave someone like Stempniak and Cammalleri (which I really don't see happening), there would be a high chance of them getting picked off.

The expansion draft is sure to be fun. The rules are going to be difficult enough that teams basically have to leave good players exposed. Not a time to rush prospects, that's for sure.

[flamesfan1297]

Or would players with NMC and NTC be automatically protected?

[Resolute 14]

There is zero chance of an expansion team starting in 2014-15, so we would be more likely looking at who we want to protect for a draft after next season.

Though as a hypothetical, we would be well situated for an expansion draft that were held this year. Not too many quality/key players that we'd need to protect.

Goalie: Ramo
Defence: Gio, Wideman, Brodie, Russell, whomever
Forwards: Backlund, Monahan, Stajan, Cammalleri (if re-signed), Glencross, Hudler, Bouma, 2-3 whomevers.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The cap will definitely factor into the expansion draft this time around as well. It is going to be very different than what happened in the last expansion draft.

If I was picking, I would purposefully look for expiring contracts that may end up good value at the trade deadline, for instance. You leave someone like Stempniak and Cammalleri (which I really don't see happening), there would be a high chance of them getting picked off.

The expansion draft is sure to be fun. The rules are going to be difficult enough that teams basically have to leave good players exposed. Not a time to rush prospects, that's for sure.

You are bang on here too C4L, the cap will play a huge part.

But I disagree on the likes of Cammy/Stempniak being picked off, that being for the simple fact that if hypothetically an expansion draft occurred in late June they would only have a couple weeks left on their contracts and would most likely lose those players for nothing.

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

Or would players with NMC and NTC be automatically protected?

Unlikely, since a NTC protects only against being traded, this would likely be similar to waivers for the players with a NTC.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Who the heck would protect David Jones? He's terrible and being paid like he's not terrible. Not exactly a building block for an expansion team. Why not protect another young guy with a chance? Same goes for Galiardi and McGratton (not necessarily the contract part, but these guys can be replaced, no use wasting a protection spot on them IMO.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Who the heck would protect David Jones? He's terrible and being paid like he's not terrible. Not exactly a building block for an expansion team. Why not protect another young guy with a chance? Same goes for Galiardi and McGratton (not necessarily the contract part, but these guys can be replaced, no use wasting a protection spot on them IMO.

Where's your list?

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by strombad

Where's your list?

Jusst going off the original poster's list, I would protect anyone else over Jones. Jones has negative value. They could prtect Anders Erikson's game used jock strap over him for example.

I get your point though, there's not a lot of guys on our non-protection list that are likely to get picked up. Just don't have a lot of attractive NHL type talent on the eligible list (besides our obvious keepers).

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Who the heck would protect David Jones? He's terrible and being paid like he's not terrible. Not exactly a building block for an expansion team. Why not protect another young guy with a chance? Same goes for Galiardi and McGratton (not necessarily the contract part, but these guys can be replaced, no use wasting a protection spot on them IMO.

Maybe you just don't understand how it works?

You have to protect a certain number of players. No point in protecting free agents. So they were literally the only ones left to protect except maybe Paul Byron.

It's not like anyone valuable with a contract or hitting RFA status was left open.

You protect there players and then maybe try and trade them to an expansion team after since they will need to reach the cap floor.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You are bang on here too C4L, the cap will play a huge part.

But I disagree on the likes of Cammy/Stempniak being picked off, that being for the simple fact that if hypothetically an expansion draft occurred in late June they would only have a couple weeks left on their contracts and would most likely lose those players for nothing.

Unlikely, since a NTC protects only against being traded, this would likely be similar to waivers for the players with a NTC.

Yes, I had a massive stroke there in that part with any logic at all.. I meant that if I was an expansion team, I would target specific players entering their last year of their contract in the aims of trading them at the deadline later. So if the draft occurred last year, Stempniak and Cammalleri would be players I would target most assuredly if they were not protected. I must have been asleep at the wheel on that post Thanks.

[SuperMatt18]

How choked would everyone be if we finished last next season and would have been in a good spot to get McDavid but he ends up going to Seattle as their first overall draft pick (as per conditions outlined in the expansion fee When they win the lottery)

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Maybe you just don't understand how it works?

You have to protect a certain number of players. No point in protecting free agents. So they were literally the only ones left to protect except maybe Paul Byron.

It's not like anyone valuable with a contract or hitting RFA status was left open.

You protect there players and then maybe try and trade them to an expansion team after since they will need to reach the cap floor.

I understand perfectly fine. At the same time, no team is taking David Jones without us taking an equally bad contract back. No concern about Seattle or whatever drafting him, protect anything else. Byron.

Galiardi is a RFA having a stinky year with little upside. I'd rather take another flyer on Ortio, could at least be a minor trade chip. Guys of Galiardi's ilk will be avialable for free in free agency... again just don't see any value in keeping him.

McGratton, I just have never agreed with the value Flames fans put on him, but I understand that's a matter of personal preference. I'd probably protect a Cammaleri or something, at least he might fetch a draft pick for negotiating rights... better than nothing.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I understand perfectly fine. At the same time, no team is taking David Jones without us taking an equally bad contract back. No concern about Seattle or whatever drafting him, protect anything else. Byron.

Galiardi is a RFA having a stinky year with little upside. I'd rather take another flyer on Ortio, could at least be a minor trade chip. Guys of Galiardi's ilk will be avialable for free in free agency... again just don't see any value in keeping him.

McGratton, I just have never agreed with the value Flames fans put on him, but I understand that's a matter of personal preference. I'd probably protect a Cammaleri or something, at least he might fetch a draft pick for negotiating rights... better than nothing.

teams can negotiate with free agents prior to July 1st now. So negotiating rights are going to be worth much less, if anything at all.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

How choked would everyone be if we finished last next season and would have been in a good spot to get McDavid but he ends up going to Seattle as their first overall draft pick (as per conditions outlined in the expansion fee When they win the lottery)

Honestly, good. Anyone who wants us to finish last deserves to be choked.