[PGT] Leafs 4 Flames 2

[puckluck2]

Colborne is a slightly more skilled David Moss. His hands turn into stone a few feet from the net. He easily should have had 2 easy tap in goals.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then why insert a player like Jackman in the lineup and basicly not use him. Either you have confidence in what he can do or you don't.

I am not a fan of dressing a fourth line that plays 4 minutes a game, so I agree with you there. Surely a fourth line can be tapped on the shoulder more than twice a period.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Dion

That's like saying a player can't improve his game anymore. If you asked Backs and he was honest he'd say there are parts of his game he wants to improve on.

If you asked Sidney Crosby he'd tell you the same thing. Every player can improve and they know that.

sitting Backlund was a big mistake which might have cost us the game.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I just think every decision should be for the betterment of the next generation. 95% of what Backlund offers is better than what Jackman gives you...and he's a guy who could be a key player in the turn around. Jackman will not even be a guy who will be here next year.

I'm for holding the young kids accountable...but only if it applies to everyone else. The younger kids should be given more of a leash, and be allowed to make a few more mistakes. Yet they always seem to be the ones paying the price for the smallest of reasons.

And sitting out one game might not be that big of a deal...but no matter what anybody says, that's a knock against you. It's embarrassing as a professional. Is getting a couple of hits a game from a guy who won't make a difference, playing against a team who you almost never see, really worth it?

IMO givng them more of a leash potentialy hurts their confidence level. It's a balancing act of trying to develop a prospects game while not destroying their confidence.Too many prospects have had their careers ruined by playing them too much.

[Red John]

Incredible effort tonight and very unfortunate to not even get a point. Just didn't get bounces and Bernier was great.

Flames gave up two goals off rebounds/goalmouth scrambles. The need to be stronger on forwards down low.

Karri Ramo...yikes. The Flames NEEDED a save from him twice in this game (end of 1st, middle of 3rd) and didn't get it. That shorty was awful - terrible time to give it up.

The guy just doesn't track the puck well. When the original shot hits him nobody knows where it will end up.

Flames may not need a goalie who can steal games when they are getting 40+ shots, but they do need one that won't lose them a game with a softy.

Finding a good goalie is such a crapshoot - the Flames tried with Ramo but he isn't looking like the answer and MacDonald isn't either. Give Berra a shot.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

If you asked Sidney Crosby he'd tell you the same thing. Every player can improve and they know that.

sitting Backlund was a big mistake which might have cost us the game.

Backlund sitting didn't cost us the game. A lack of finish around the net and the Leafs capitalising on their few chances was the difference. We had more than enough chances to win the game.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I am not a fan of dressing a fourth line that plays 4 minutes a game, so I agree with you there. Surely a fourth line can be tapped on the shoulder more than twice a period.

Exactly! Lets have a fourth line made up of players that can play the game. Guys like Jackman are just taking up roster spots that could be better used with other players.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Dion

Backlund sitting didn't cost us the game. A lack of finish around the net and the Leafs capitalising on their few chances was the difference. We had more than enough chances to win the game.

I agree about him not being the difference maker in terms of scoring, but the guy is one of our best defensive forwards. Maybe he does nothing, but maybe he breaks up a play that leads to a goal. And right now this is a team that can use a guy who knows how to play defense...especially against an offensive team like the Leafs.

[albertGQ]

I think Colborne has played well enough to earn more minutes. But not 23+ minutes!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I agree about him not being the difference maker in terms of scoring, but the guy is one of our best defensive forwards. Maybe he does nothing, but maybe he breaks up a play that leads to a goal. And right now this is a team that can use a guy who knows how to play defense...especially against an offensive team like the Leafs.

If a coach feels a player could benefit from watching a game from the press box, when do you take him out of the lineup? Or do you not do that at all?

I agree he should have been in the lineup and yeah he could have made a difference. I guess with this being a rebuilding phase I don't get upset as I probaly would if the Flames were a top contending team.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by nik-

Remember that 4 points out at November 1st anecdote Freidman talked about?

... well

We are out of the pack.

The Flames are one of the three teams who have done it before. They can do it again.

On November 1, 2006, the Flames were seven points out of a playoff spot, with a game in hand on the 8th place team (Edmonton -- HA HA!) and made the playoffs (25 points ahead of the Oilers -- HA HA!).

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Dion

Watching it from above as opposed to on the ice surface are 2 different ways of viewing the game. You see things differently which is the whole point of the exercise. A player can learn things he might not see at the ice level.

The point of the exercise is that you have 21 players on the bench, but a 23 man roster. The box is not a gallery for skill development, contrary to what the coaches may say.

They have hundreds of hours of video to view, and use as a teaching tool, so I don't believe it's for player development all that much.

For a rookie, it's a chance to watch the game without all the adrenaline, and to see how the pros play. I can see Baertschi maybe benefiting, but not much.

Why isn't Jackman a better player then?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Dion

If a coach feels a player could benefit from watching a game from the press box, when do you take him out of the lineup? Or do you not do that at all?

Well they did just have 4 days in between games...seems like that would've been plenty of time to do some teaching/learning. I'm not sure what you learn about scoring goals sitting in the press box that you can't learn from watching a game on tv or some tape. Jackman sure hasn't learned much from sitting and watching.

I guess with this being a rebuilding phase I don't get upset as I probaly would if the Flames were a top contending team.

I think that's exactly why it bothers me...we are in a rebuilding phase, yet seem to be making decisions for the present and not the future. The score itself (apart from losing to the always-annoying Leafs) I couldn't care less about.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames are one of the three teams who have done it before. They can do it again.

On November 1, 2006, the Flames were seven points out of a playoff spot, with a game in hand on the 8th place team (Edmonton -- HA HA!) and made the playoffs (25 points ahead of the Oilers -- HA HA!).

That is the scary thought. Are we looking to legitimately compete, or do they want us to claw our way back in again.

[kenk-la]

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames are one of the three teams who have done it before. They can do it again.

On November 1, 2006, the Flames were seven points out of a playoff spot, with a game in hand on the 8th place team (Edmonton -- HA HA!) and made the playoffs (25 points ahead of the Oilers -- HA HA!).

That team had Jarome Iginla and Miikka Kiprusoff in their prime, this team does not have a player of their calibre, at least not yet.

I just want to echo the sentiments of others in that I think it is a questionable move to have Backlund scratched for Tim Jackman of all people. This team is rebuilding, so you'd think you'd play Backlund instead of Jackman, even with the so called "physical edge" Jackman brings he doesn't have the/any offensive ability. Whatever.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The point of the exercise is that you have 21 players on the bench, but a 23 man roster. The box is not a gallery for skill development, contrary to what the coaches may say.

They have hundreds of hours of video to view, and use as a teaching tool, so I don't believe it's for player development all that much.

Then why bench any player and have him sit out of the lineup? Are the coaches wrong in what they do?

For a rookie, it's a chance to watch the game without all the adrenaline, and to see how the pros play. I can see Baertschi maybe benefiting, but not much.

With rookies I see it as more to do with managing their confidence levels. Monahan for example seems to have a longer leash than Baertschi and I would think it's due to the confidence he shows and how he plays at both ends of the ice. Bart on the other hand has a history of struggling with his game and confidence and I would suspect the coaching staff has him on a shorter leash

Why isn't Jackman a better player then?

You can't develop talent when there isn't any to begin with. He's an enforcer and nothing else. Him, McGratton and players like that shouldn't be in the league. A waste of a roster space and cap money.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Well they did just have 4 days in between games...seems like that would've been plenty of time to do some teaching/learning. I'm not sure what you learn about scoring goals sitting in the press box that you can't learn from watching a game on tv or some tape. Jackman sure hasn't learned much from sitting and watching.

I think that's exactly why it bothers me...we are in a rebuilding phase, yet seem to be making decisions for the present and not the future. The score itself (apart from losing to the always-annoying Leafs) I couldn't care less about.

I sometimes wonder if we are not getting all the reasons when a player sits. Backs for the most part has been a good player for us this season.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Dion

Then why bench any player and have him sit out of the lineup? Are the coaches wrong in what they do?

No, not at all. I'm saying it's a numbers game, not a teaching one. They have to sit someone. It's an easy out saying is a learning opportunity.

With rookies I see it as more to do with managing their confidence levels. Monahan for example seems to have a longer leash than Baertschi and I would think it's due to the confidence he shows and how he plays at both ends of the ice. Bart on the other hand has a history of struggling with his game and confidence and I would suspect the coaching staff has him on a shorter leash

I agree with this, though I'd question how telling someone they're playing terrible enhances their confidence. I'd say it's more about toughening them up and showing though love. Setting them up for an opportunity to show improvement.

You can't develop talent when there isn't any to begin with. He's an enforcer and nothing else. Him, McGratton and players like that shouldn't be in the league. A waste of a roster space and cap money.

Again I agree, my comment was more flippant than a true question.



I still don't see the benefit of the benching of Backlund. If he's the odd man out due to play? Fine

If he's the odd man out due to style of play against a particular team? Fine (though it was a poor decision of that's the case)

Why then say is because he hasn't played well enough?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

No, not at all. I'm saying it's a numbers game, not a teaching one. They have to sit someone. It's an easy out saying is a learning opportunity.

I see your point

I agree with this, though I'd question how telling someone they're playing terrible enhances their confidence. I'd say it's more about toughening them up and showing though love. Setting them up for an opportunity to show improvement.

To me it's not the telling part, it's how you teach them to deal with the down points in their game when they are not producing and trying to do too much. Tough love works for some people and not for others. Everyone responds to difficulties in different ways and you can't have a one size fits all approach. You can motivate people in many different ways with the trick being finding the right approach. A good coach will know how to do that. Is Hartley that coach? I'm not sure.

I still don't see the benefit of the benching of Backlund. If he's the odd man out due to play? Fine

If he's the odd man out due to style of play against a particular team? Fine (though it was a poor decision of that's the case)

Why then say is because he hasn't played well enough?

I found it confusing when Hartley said he also wanted to add size. Which one is it?

[stemit14]

Still going to say the same thing I've been saying all season... I love watching this team play! The work ethic and compete level on this team is among the best in the league. The flames deserved to win this game and they nearly did. Anything less than all star goaltending from bernier and the flames would have easily won.

I haven't watched as many leaf games but I have heard all the complaints that they are winning games that they deserve to lose. After seeing this game against the flames, I can see what everyone was talking about. It was more than just being out shot... The flames won nearly every puck battle and made a fast leafs team look slow.