[News] Flames send 4 more packing

[Knut]

Originally Posted by getbak

He said the cuts today were tough decisions. He told Knight that he liked what he did in camp and to work hard in Abbotsford so that when he gets recalled, it will be to start his permanent NHL career. He told Reinhart they want him to work on the defensive side of his game, but liked the work he put in over the summer. He told Ferland how impressed everyone was with the dedication he showed during the summer, dropping 15 pounds since the Memorial Cup, and he just needs to keep working in Abbotsford.

They kept Kanzig around so long so that he got the full NHL training camp experience and to see how hard the pros work every day. Now he knows he needs to work hard and be a leader in Victoria so that next year he's pushing to make the Flames. He said that Lowry has been calling him every day asking when they were going to get Kanzig back, and Feaster told him to have patience because he was going to be getting back a much better player than the one he had last year. They are very excited about the player Kanzig can be.

He talked about Hartley's infamous "mountain climber" drill, and that you need to be able to complete them in 45 seconds to be skating at an NHL level. He said that Reinhart worked really hard in the summer to be able to meet that goal. He also said that Kanzig was far off the time and needs to work on that.


Overall, he said that camp this year was much better than expected and much more competitive. The young kids pushed the veterans to be better. The vets worked hard to keep up and there wasn't any whining or slacking.

Can someone elaborate what exactly this drill entails ?

[transplant99]

podcast here

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/on-demand/

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Soliak

I really like those lines. Monahan with Cammalleri and Hudler

I like that set up too, but I'd rather see Jackman traded and Horak in that spot full time mixing with Bouma and Mcgratton

[stemit14]

I'm already starting to worry about how the fan base and management are treating baertschi. I can't believe how critical everyone is of him... Whenever he is put into a position to succeed, he's been great... Like when he started getting top six minutes at the end of last year and he was playing with the most skilled guys on the team. Or in abbotsford when he got to play the first 1:15 of the powerplay.

Everyone thinks he got sent back down to abbotsford last year cause he was playing bad but that's completely wrong. The problem was that the flames had a log jam at left wing (they kind of still do). Tanguay, cammalleri, glencross, cervenka, comeau, and baertschi were all left wingers last year. Baertschi was the only one they could send down to abbotsford last year without having to clear waivers and Baertschi needed to be playing top 6 minutes so they sent him down.

He is constantly setting up scoring chances for other players who don't capitalize because they don't have the scoring touch to do it. Give him top six minutes and put him on the #1 powerplay unit and he won't disappoint.

And don't try to say he hasn't earned those minutes cause every time he's been put in that spot he's proven that he deserves it... The only time people think he struggles is when he is put on a line with guys like knight and bouma - good players but don't have the scoring touch to finish the chances baertschi creates.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Can someone elaborate what exactly this drill entails ?

I believe it's a line-touch drill.

You start at one goal line and skate to each of the lines on the ice and back: starting goal line --> near blue line --> starting goal line --> centre line --> starting goal line --> far blue line --> starting goal line --> far goal line --> starting goal line

All in 45 seconds.

[Ring of Fire]

Horak makes the team in my opinion. Street is top-6 or bust and I think Sven has more skill. Breen, Street, B.Jones, are waiver eligible which is why they're still up. Horak, Monahan, Sven, and Bouma make the team. Sieloff may make it only if the Flames can move a veteran d-man.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by getbak

I believe it's a line-touch drill.

You start at one goal line and skate to each of the lines on the ice and back: starting goal line --> near blue line --> starting goal line --> centre line --> starting goal line --> far blue line --> starting goal line --> far goal line --> starting goal line

All in 45 seconds.

I remember those from hockey... horrible. Called them Suicide Drills. The two that did it the slowest had to re do them. If you did not touch a line you had to re do it. If you cheated you had to re do it. Horrible.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I'm already starting to worry about how the fan base and management are treating baertschi. I can't believe how critical everyone is of him... Whenever he is put into a position to succeed, he's been great... Like when he started getting top six minutes at the end of last year and he was playing with the most skilled guys on the team. Or in abbotsford when he got to play the first 1:15 of the powerplay.

Everyone thinks he got sent back down to abbotsford last year cause he was playing bad but that's completely wrong. The problem was that the flames had a log jam at left wing (they kind of still do). Tanguay, cammalleri, glencross, cervenka, comeau, and baertschi were all left wingers last year. Baertschi was the only one they could send down to abbotsford last year without having to clear waivers and Baertschi needed to be playing top 6 minutes so they sent him down.

He is constantly setting up scoring chances for other players who don't capitalize because they don't have the scoring touch to do it. Give him top six minutes and put him on the #1 powerplay unit and he won't disappoint.

And don't try to say he hasn't earned those minutes cause every time he's been put in that spot he's proven that he deserves it... The only time people think he struggles is when he is put on a line with guys like knight and bouma - good players but don't have the scoring touch to finish the chances baertschi creates.

Except, you know, this training camp.

He hasn't been very good at times, that;'s just the reality of it.

And without question if he isnt able to handle a top 6 role right now in Calgary, he should definately go to Abby and get that part of his game up to snuff.

Someone mentioned the other day, that Sven is somewhat fragile still in that if his confidence takes a hit, he really slumps. But when his confidence is high, he is the most skilled guy on the club. If that confidence needs a shot in the arm, its best found in Abby not struggling against NHL competition.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Nice to see the Flames management echoing what I said in the game thread last night. My problem with Baertschi is it appears he has come in with a bit of a sense of entitlement. He didn't perform well in the development camp in July. He looked disinterested in the prospects tournament. Then he was inconsistent in camp. I would hate to think the Flames have developed the belief in him that he is a proven NHL player at 25 games and he doesn't have to work to earn his spot. As badly as I got shat upon last night I still contend the best thing possible for Baertschi is to be sent to Abby, shown that he has to work to earn his spot, and let him become a dominant player at that level before he comes up again. I would be fine if he doesn't get a sniff this season and watches other players get their shot prior to him, just so he finds out that the sense of entitlement that appeared to exist with the team while Iginla was here is gone for good and you will only get your position when you earn it.

Of course that will mean the Flames will have to do something with players like Jackman who have clearly been surpassed by younger players but keep their positions because of contract status. If I was to complain about the cuts made to date I would say it is that guys like Jackman stay up while other players with more talent and smarts are in the minors. Those changes will come shortly I think, but it is still a little frustrating to see some of these slugs remain on the team.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Except, you know, this training camp.

He hasn't been very good at times, that;'s just the reality of it.

And without question if he isnt able to handle a top 6 role right now in Calgary, he should definately go to Abby and get that part of his game up to snuff.

Someone mentioned the other day, that Sven is somewhat fragile still in that if his confidence takes a hit, he really slumps. But when his confidence is high, he is the most skilled guy on the club. If that confidence needs a shot in the arm, its best found in Abby not struggling against NHL competition.

This training camp is another example of him not playing with players that fit his style of play... He's been playing with guys like bouma, knight, and ferland. So this is not an example of him being put in a position to succeed.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by stemit14

This training camp is another example of him not playing with players that fit his style of play... He's been playing with guys like bouma, knight, and ferland. So this is not an example of him being put in a position to succeed.

so you want him to be spoon fed?

[Dion]

I'm pretty sure we'll see them called up during the season. In fact some seasoning in Abby will be good for them as they will get lots of ice time and good coaching from Ward.

[browna]

As far as Sven goes, I don't put a lot of stock in him finishing off last year with a streak...it was pure "garbage" time for everyone, and if it was a player like Stajan putting up those numbers it would quickly be dismissed as such.

That said, it may seem fairly simplistic, but B. Sutter was an ideal coach/teacher for a guy like Sven (and, now again would be for this roster, 2 years on).

Hartley's got a reputation for being quite the opposite to a "teacher", as former players can likely attest to, and he was brought it to coax as much as he could out of a veteran lineup last year by his pal Jay "You'll have to find someone else to do the rebuild" Feaster.

For a young guy, IMO just that change may have had an effect of Sven in some way; that he has to conform to Hartley's ways or he'll get crapped on, and as such, has to do things differently than he did under Brent. That mindset change has caused him to struggle under a different set of critical eyes as his coach.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Someone mentioned the other day, that Sven is somewhat fragile still in that if his confidence takes a hit, he really slumps. But when his confidence is high, he is the most skilled guy on the club. If that confidence needs a shot in the arm, its best found in Abby not struggling against NHL competition.

Or, maybe he could just use a break, to worry less about making it and just concentrate on learning to play against the NHL guys.

Personally, I'd keep him up, give him the chances to fail and tell him it's okay to fail them. And he probably wouldn't because he's pretty damned good and has the right attitude to learn.

Not that I know Baertchi any better, but really just wanted to point out that confidence is a funny thing, and it's really tough to say from the outside who needs what to get it.

Some people will get it from being the best among the good. Others will get it from fitting in with the best, even if they're not the best.

Tough calls for the Flames, I hope they handle it well.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by PIMking

so you want him to be spoon fed?

Spoon fed isn't exactly the right word, but for a player like Sven at his age to succeed he's needs to play a role what got him here, he's top 6 player and needs top 6 players to play with, the other parts of his game will come with experience.

I remember Chicago fans being concerned about Kane in his first training camp...how did that work out.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by PIMking

so you want him to be spoon fed?

There isn't a straight line or one way to develop a player. Some guys need to be pushed, some need to be coddled, some guys need it told to them straight some you have to finesse.

I think everyone, fans, management, Sven himself are way over thinking this.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Ring of Fire

Horak makes the team in my opinion. Street is top-6 or bust and I think Sven has more skill. Breen, Street, B.Jones, are waiver eligible which is why they're still up. Horak, Monahan, Sven, and Bouma make the team. Sieloff may make it only if the Flames can move a veteran d-man.

Street hasn't even come close to being a PPG player in the AHL, no way he's top 6 or bust.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by New Era

Nice to see the Flames management echoing what I said in the game thread last night. My problem with Baertschi is it appears he has come in with a bit of a sense of entitlement. He didn't perform well in the development camp in July. He looked disinterested in the prospects tournament. Then he was inconsistent in camp. I would hate to think the Flames have developed the belief in him that he is a proven NHL player at 25 games and he doesn't have to work to earn his spot. As badly as I got shat upon last night I still contend the best thing possible for Baertschi is to be sent to Abby, shown that he has to work to earn his spot, and let him become a dominant player at that level before he comes up again. I would be fine if he doesn't get a sniff this season and watches other players get their shot prior to him, just so he finds out that the sense of entitlement that appeared to exist with the team while Iginla was here is gone for good and you will only get your position when you earn it.

Of course that will mean the Flames will have to do something with players like Jackman who have clearly been surpassed by younger players but keep their positions because of contract status. If I was to complain about the cuts made to date I would say it is that guys like Jackman stay up while other players with more talent and smarts are in the minors. Those changes will come shortly I think, but it is still a little frustrating to see some of these slugs remain on the team.

I REALLY don't get any entitlement from him, I get a guy who is easily disappointed. If you listen to the things he actually says 98% of the time, he sounds a little lost in his head, a little like he's waiting to be disappointed or just generally easily put off.

He doesn't need to go down to Abby and learn to work hard, he knows how to work hard. He needs a confidence boost and a little bit of the pressure eased off. We've all seen it, Sven has even SAID it, he gets too far into his own head looking for some results, but when he gets them? He goes on a tear, he's a machine.

Effort or entitlement is not his issue, not even close. His issue is learning to take the pressure off of himself and have the confidence to actually play his game instead of fearing a lack of results.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Can someone elaborate what exactly this drill entails ?

Goal line --> blue line --> goal line --> red line --> goal line --> far blue line --> goal line --> far goal line --> goal line

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by PIMking

so you want him to be spoon fed?

No, I want him to play with players that can play well with him. Do u want cammalleri playing with jackman and mcgrattan? The oilers don't put nugent-Hopkins with ben eager and Ryan jones.

If they put Monahan on a line with jackman and bouma and after 9 games he only has 1 assist, would u be saying he needs to go back to junior?