Imperial Oil building office in Quarry Park

[SeeGeeWhy]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I certainly like the concept of these urban campuses but I never expected that a major E&P company in Calgary would make the move. When it comes to the E&P business it has always been thought that it is essential and critical to be in the core in order to facilitate effective business operations. It becomes inefficient and more difficult to schedule meetings with contractors when they have to leave the core to visit your suburban campus. It also effectively isolates your employees because they are away from their colleagues at the core.

I have lived in Calgary since 1982 and EPC company head offices always seem to be in a race with the city limits. Sure there is usually some presence DT, but there's no denying EPCs live and breathe cheap rent.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by guzzy

I think the issue is a wash. There are a ton of good people in this industry that don't want to be downtown. There are also a ton that don't want to be anywhere else. In the EPC side of things i think there are a larger percentage of those who dont want to downtown. On the producers side of things there are a larger percentage of those who want to be downtown. IOL is really the first major producer to leave downtown. For everyone who quits over the move, someone will leave another producer to avoid downtown.

Yeah, but for E&P that assumes there's an unlimited supply of professionals in the SE. Which there isn't. And that SE employers can afford to ignore potential staff in the North and West ends, which they can't but are when they move to the sticks.

I'm facing this dilemna right now - I have a well paying accounting finance Controller job in an "inner SE" industrial park open. Downtown people don't want to touch it. Location has proven to be extremely limiting in terms of it's appeal to potential candidates.

You want to spark off a big CP debate - how about the concept that "downtown" jobs pay more than "suburban office" type jobs (and not just in E&P). Some of it is industry related for sure (E&P trumps all) but in O&G services at least it's not uncommon to see they guy downtown getting paid more than the guy in the suburban office park (at similar experience and qualification levels).

EPC is different - they are cheap mofos and could care less if they put staff in a Brazilian Favela. Haven't they offshored stuff to India yet?

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

EPC is different - they are cheap mofos and could care less if they put staff in a Brazilian Favela. Haven't they offshored stuff to India yet?

You know how I can tell you've never worked at an EPC...

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

You know how I can tell you've never worked at an EPC...

And for that I'm eternally greatful...

Just kidding, I'm aware that offshoring happened to a certain extent - heard rework costs caused some of these jobs to come back. Was just wondering if they had "solved" some of these problems with off shoring....

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

And for that I'm eternally greatful...

Just kidding, I'm aware that offshoring happened to a certain extent - heard rework costs caused some of these jobs to come back. Was just wondering if they had "solved" some of these problems with off shoring....

It's only going to get worse. Korea is becoming the new offshoring destination of choice, and they make India look skilled and competent. Quality of work rarely matters anymore, cost is the predominant driving factor these days.

The main point is, don't blame the EPCs for the cheapness. Blame the clients and their constant demands for more work done for less money. The EPCs would gladly keep the work here and bill the clients for work done at Calgary rates if they could.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

If I were an HR Manager, I'd be wary if I saw someone going through 5 companies in 11 years. Why would I put someone at the top of the candidate list who, historically, will only stay two years and then take off?

Getting through the HR departments irrelevant filtering is the hard part. I've gotten offered every single job I've ever interviewed for. I think you need to look at why 5 companies in 11 years instead of just dismissing the candidate.

For me:

1. Got a job out of school
2. Outsourced- got forced into working at a place I hated
3. Switched jobs from said hated place after giving it a year
4. Company split
5. Company was about to outsource, so I jumped ship

I've never left a job because I was going to cash in somewhere else, my hand was forced every time. I sit at 2.2 years per job on average without ever voluntarily jumping ship.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Getting through the HR departments irrelevant filtering is the hard part. I've gotten offered every single job I've ever interviewed for. I think you need to look at why 5 companies in 11 years instead of just dismissing the candidate.

For me:

1. Got a job out of school
2. Outsourced- got forced into working at a place I hated
3. Switched jobs from said hated place after giving it a year
4. Company split
5. Company was about to outsource, so I jumped ship

I've never left a job because I was going to cash in somewhere else, my hand was forced every time. I sit at 2.2 years per job on average without ever voluntarily jumping ship.

Like I said, everyone's career is different, and that's why I qualified that as such. HR departments would be doing their due dilligence by checking as to why so much change has occurred, but often times they don't - they just see so many places and a young resume and assume you're a flight risk. That's just the reality of the situation; that said, you are fortunate to not have experienced that apparently.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by J pold

That is now the Westmount Corporate Campus Development. The campus is owned by bcIMC and managed by GWL Realty Partners. They have had decent success with the campus since it opened and just finished up leasing the 4th of 5 planned buildings. My team and I have put a group into building 3 for 2 floors and they are very happy with the development overall.

There is a 5th and final building planned that is 8 floors with 240,000 rentable square feet. Right now it’s subject to preleasing but there are rumors in the market that they are in talks with a group to take the whole building. We are hearing Stantec or Bantrel but it’s all speculation right now.

Rendering below:

Bantrel would be curious given they only put up their current building on Glenmore just west of Elbow a few years ago. Did they outgrow it?

And I work in the area of this campus. It is very easy to get in and out of - if you work the right hours. Rush hour is annoying, but I'd say only a minor inconvenience if you are heading south or E/W on Glenmore. North on Crowchild is a giant clusterfata, however.

And since you may know, when is that retail building opening, and what's going in it?

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Yeah, but for E&P that assumes there's an unlimited supply of professionals in the SE. Which there isn't. And that SE employers can afford to ignore potential staff in the North and West ends, which they can't but are when they move to the sticks.

I'm facing this dilemna right now - I have a well paying accounting finance Controller job in an "inner SE" industrial park open. Downtown people don't want to touch it. Location has proven to be extremely limiting in terms of it's appeal to potential candidates.

You want to spark off a big CP debate - how about the concept that "downtown" jobs pay more than "suburban office" type jobs (and not just in E&P). Some of it is industry related for sure (E&P trumps all) but in O&G services at least it's not uncommon to see they guy downtown getting paid more than the guy in the suburban office park (at similar experience and qualification levels).

EPC is different - they are cheap mofos and could care less if they put staff in a Brazilian Favela. Haven't they offshored stuff to India yet?

Wow. I don't know where to start with this. EPC usually pays more than producers...in salary, at least from the engineering side of it. The benefit with producers are the bonuses and benefits and the longer term commitments(better job security). EPC houses often hire per project so there are many contract positions and much less long term commitments.

I have never heard anything of downtown jobs paying more than suburban offices. I work EPC and as far as i know salary between the two is indifferent regardless of location. I don't even know how you came to that generalization. We struggle to bring guys in all the time, not because of location, not because of low salaries, but because the good people in this industry are usually very well taken care of....again, regardless of location. Often we put out an offer and the offered employee uses that to get raise at current position and stays.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Muta

That's just the reality of the situation; that said, you are fortunate to not have experienced that apparently.

I think I had many-a-resume chucked out by HR early on in my career. When I was able to get a resume directly to a supervisor I had a much larger chance of getting an interview.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is just so common in the oilpatch in Calgary to have moved around that it isn't seen as that weird. You can definitely see patterns but if its not ridiculous, they will not care. In fact there are some outfits that will not look at you if you have been somewhere for > x number of years. There are certain places, if you were there a long time, you are likely broken.

When your supervisors and HR folk have moved around more than yourself then they are not likely to question your loyalty.

One of the best way to get a management spot is to move around, they know even better the game that is played and aren't going to fault others for doing the same thing.

Yes, I have many friends that have moved around the oilpatch. Moving around is positively strategic, and people wouldn't do it because it's a lateral move; it's an upwards move. So, yes, it can be a good thing... I`m just mentioning that loyalty can also be a desirable trait that can help you secure employment as well, especially if you were with a reputable company during that timeframe. Companies want to extract value out of employees experience, but they also don't want to invest resources into someone who will just up and leave in short order.

[Rathji]

I would love to work in QP, but I live in the deep SE.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Wow. I don't know where to start with this. EPC usually pays more than producers...in salary, at least from the engineering side of it. The benefit with producers are the bonuses and benefits and the longer term commitments(better job security).

I have never heard anything of downtown jobs paying more than suburban offices. I work EPC and as far as i know salary between the two is indifferent rega

Bonuses and benefits are where it's at in this town. Salaries may be higher for EPC's but I'd be very surprised if someone told me that they'd give up being a Staff Engineer at a downtown E&P with higher total comp (salary, bonus, options, benefits, lifestyle) in exchange for an EPC's higher base salary and greater chance of getting fired when a project dries up. (witness the layoff thread for evidence of EPC carnage)

But like I said, I'm not an engineer nor am I in EPC - I just get to deal with your cost overruns in a finance/accounting role. I can say with certainty though that for a variety of reasons - at least from a finance / accounting role - you are likely to get paid less working at a role outside of downtown.

[MG153]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I've been working on this project for the last two years and IOL (sorry Imperial as they are now known) worked very hard on getting employee buy-in. Much more than I have seen with other oil/gas companies. As for the space itself, it will be a much better work environment than what they are in now.

Remington actually was a bit behind schedule so they just squeezed all us other contractors to get down. The next move in date for Building D is scheduled for the beginning of January with each other building following one per quarter.


...and yes, the traffic is going to suck once 3200 more people work there.

who do you work for rotten? ive been there for a year now myself

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Bantrel would be curious given they only put up their current building on Glenmore just west of Elbow a few years ago. Did they outgrow it?

And I work in the area of this campus. It is very easy to get in and out of - if you work the right hours. Rush hour is annoying, but I'd say only a minor inconvenience if you are heading south or E/W on Glenmore. North on Crowchild is a giant clusterfata, however.

And since you may know, when is that retail building opening, and what's going in it?

I'm not sure why Bantrel would want to move as they aren't my client but I know their lease rolls in that building in 2017 which dovetails perfectly with the delivery of the Westmount 5. I know the building they are currently in has bad parking and is owned by Northwest Healthcare Properties, a REIT that is mandated to only hold buildings with medical tenants so that development is a black sheep and Bantrel isn't serviced as well they might be in a more traditional office portfolio, or so I have heard.

I'll do some digging on that retail portion but right now GWL is being very tight lipped. The lack of viable amenities is one of the reasons why they lost Imperial when they where out in the market.

[Resolute 14]

Makes sense on Bantrel. One thing I will never understand on the Westmount campus is why they put the parkade on the edge of the development. That should have gone where building 5 is so it could be central and service everyone, and building 5 where the parkade currently is.

[MacDaddy77]

Here's hoping there's turnover in the land department for a negotiator surface or mineral

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by MG153

who do you work for rotten? ive been there for a year now myself

I work for the furniture supplier. I've been working with their designers out of Houston (PDR) to design the custom furniture they bought and then specify all the other furniture.

[Nufy]

Traffic sucks here now...

Let alone when everyone else arrives...

In addition to the IOL complex, there is a new bldg going up across from my office and earth works have already started for another bldg further north on 24 street.

South of us is a never ending excercise in moving piles of dirt around that will become another bldg someday.

And once the rec centre gets built it will all be complete.

Thanks god i pay for underground parking. Now I just need a helicopter.

[calgarygeologist]

I don`t follow the transit developments very much but with all the development in the deep SE and with the corporate expansion in Quarry Park shouldn`t a SE transit line be higher priority than expansion to the north-central portion of the city