Would you abuse a baby to entertain a crowd?-Vancouver Humane Society

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But animal welfare is very much important to the Stampede and the cowboys. You choose to blind yourself to that, so I doubt anyone will ever change your mind. But that is a choice you make, not a fact.

Okay, about that.

I love my kids. I treat them well, I'm extremely concerned for their welfare. I only put them in that underground motorcycle deathrace a couple times a year, and yeah, I make money at it, but the risk isn't that great. They are going to survive 99% of the time, and will likely live a long life.

Now, how important is the welfare of my kids to me?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Please, what improvements have been made in the past to improve this event for the animals? I hate how the stampede tries to portray its self as some sort of "animail lover" just continue to blanket the same old story year after year. I just wish they would admit its about the money, and entertainment and cut the crap.

You mean aside from several rule changes including reduction of outriders to reduce congestion on the track, restrictsions on how many races and how often the horses can run and rodeo stock can participate in, banning of dangerous types of tackles in events like steer wrestling? The chuckwagons themselves have been redesigned a few times over the year in a bid to make them safer. Constant monitoring by veteranarians and the Calgary Humane Society?

Really though, we both know we're wasting each other's time here. Nobody will ever convince you that anything short of a complete ban on the sport is safe enough, so there is no argument anyone can make that will cause you to actually look at the safety issue with an open mind. Likewise, I find such extreme viewpoints to be little more than zealotry, which automatically disqualifies them from being valid in my mind.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You mean aside from several rule changes including reduction of outriders to reduce congestion on the track, restrictsions on how many races and how often the horses can run and rodeo stock can participate in, banning of dangerous types of tackles in events like steer wrestling? The chuckwagons themselves have been redesigned a few times over the year in a bid to make them safer. Constant monitoring by veteranarians and the Calgary Humane Society?

Really though, we both know we're wasting each other's time here. Nobody will ever convince you that anything short of a complete ban on the sport is safe enough, so there is no argument anyone can make that will cause you to actually look at the safety issue with an open mind. Likewise, I find such extreme viewpoints to be little more than zealotry, which automatically disqualifies them from being valid in my mind.

Fair enough. I couldn't clairfy either way if there was an effort for changes by the stampede. However the stampede's record speaks for itself, this isn't an accident when it happens year after year. If no animals were dying or even if it was a rare occurance then nobody would say anything.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay, about that.

I love my kids. I treat them well, I'm extremely concerned for their welfare. I only put them in that underground motorcycle deathrace a couple times a year, and yeah, I make money at it, but the risk isn't that great. They are going to survive 99% of the time, and will likely live a long life.

Now, how important is the welfare of my kids to me?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Fair enough. I couldn't clairfy either way if there was an effort for changes by the stampede. However the stampede's record speaks for itself, this isn't an accident when it happens year after year. If no animals were dying or even if it was a rare occurance then nobody would say anything.

Well, as I documented in another thread, there is an inherent danger in the sport. That is also part of why people find it so thrilling. But I do not feel that disqualifies the arguments both that the animals are well cared for and that they care about safety.

Myself, I compare it to something like auto racing. Racers die every year in crashes. Organizers continually attempt to make it safer, but it is a fact of life that racers will continue to die as long as the sport exists. Horse racing is the same, regardless of what type. Nobody wants to see these deaths, but they will always happen, even as organizers always try to improve safety.

What I find bizarre, and more than a little hypocritical, is how people like the VHS stand up as if they are some champion of the poor, downtrodden horse, even as they ignore equally unnecessary human deaths. This isn't about animal rights or welfare. This is about a group of people that need to feel superior to everyone else and whose primary interest is self promotion.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Fair enough. I couldn't clairfy either way if there was an effort for changes by the stampede. However the stampede's record speaks for itself, this isn't an accident when it happens year after year. If no animals were dying or even if it was a rare occurance then nobody would say anything.

There is a car accident likely every day in the City of Calgary, therefore they are no longer accidents, right?

Accident:
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Well, as I documented in another thread, there is an inherent danger in the sport. That is also part of why people find it so thrilling. But I do not feel that disqualifies the arguments both that the animals are well cared for and that they care about safety.

Myself, I compare it to something like auto racing. Racers die every year in crashes. Organizers continually attempt to make it safer, but it is a fact of life that racers will continue to die as long as the sport exists. Horse racing is the same, regardless of what type. Nobody wants to see these deaths, but they will always happen, even as organizers always try to improve safety.

What I find bizarre, and more than a little hypocritical, is how people like the VHS stand up as if they are some champion of the poor, downtrodden horse, even as they ignore equally unnecessary human deaths. This isn't about animal rights or welfare. This is about a group of people that need to feel superior to everyone else and whose primary interest is self promotion.

Personally I don't bother myself with VHS and their opinion. But I don't buy the fact that the stampede cares about the safety of these horses. If they did we would not see horses dying year after year, simple as that. Comparing the chucks to nascar or whatever else doesn't really work because that is human choice. If your going to compare something atleast make it equivalent. I won't lose sleep if the chucks are banned or not, my issue is more with how the stampede portrays itself.

[Ne7en]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

There is a car accident likely every day in the City of Calgary, therefore they are no longer accidents, right?

no comment

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Accident:
an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss

you could make an argument based on how these animals die. heartattacks caused by what? possibly being pushed past their limits? i'm pretty sure the driver's INTENTIONALLY ride the piss out of these horses. it's allot of cash.

[dirk diggler]

The Stampede Board cares about one thing and one thing only, money. that is obvious. my favourite stampede board moment was when some low income families had a function on the grounds and the stampede board made sure that even though someone had been nice enough to do provide a function for these familes, they made sure they nailed them the $13.00 or whatever it is for parking. keeping it classy

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by getbak

The crash last night had nothing to do with the track layout or the proximity of the wagons (which have caused problems in the past, and changes have been made to fix those issues).

The left leader suffered from a brain aneurysm and collapsed on the track (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...921/story.html).

Unfortunately, because the horses are all hitched up together like they are, when he went down, the other horses ran into him and things got tangled up and the whole rig fell apart. The outrider ran into the back of the rig.

The right leader and the outrider's horse were euthanized because of the severity of their injuries. The right wheeler sustained non-life threatening injuries, and the left wheeler was uninjured.


I'm not sure why the outrider was so close to the wagon at that point, but he should have been further on the outside of the track, away from the wagons. He might have seen that the wagon was having problems and was moving to provide assistance.

Ahh gotcha. Well like I said, I'm not the best person for the specifics on this. Thanks for the info.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay, about that.

I love my kids. I treat them well, I'm extremely concerned for their welfare. I only put them in that underground motorcycle deathrace a couple times a year, and yeah, I make money at it, but the risk isn't that great. They are going to survive 99% of the time, and will likely live a long life.

Now, how important is the welfare of my kids to me?

Where can I watch this race?!

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Okay, about that.

I love my kids. I treat them well, I'm extremely concerned for their welfare. I only put them in that underground motorcycle deathrace a couple times a year, and yeah, I make money at it, but the risk isn't that great. They are going to survive 99% of the time, and will likely live a long life.

Now, how important is the welfare of my kids to me?

That's called your commute.

You're not as safe as you think you are.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Knalus

That's called your commute.

You're not as safe as you think you are.

Ooh, deep.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

The Stampede Board cares about one thing and one thing only, money. that is obvious. my favourite stampede board moment was when some low income families had a function on the grounds and the stampede board made sure that even though someone had been nice enough to do provide a function for these familes, they made sure they nailed them the $13.00 or whatever it is for parking. keeping it classy

Take transit?

[PIMking]

mmmmm veal....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ne7en

Please, what improvements have been made in the past to improve this event for the animals? I hate how the stampede tries to portray its self as some sort of "animail lover" just continue to blanket the same old story year after year. I just wish they would admit its about the money, and entertainment and cut the crap.

nm...just wont matter what is said or what the facts are....the blinders are on.

[worth]

So when is the baby abuse show happening?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by worth

So when is the baby abuse show happening?

According to the VHS....everyday at 1:30 PM, grandstand, Stampede Park, Calgary Alberta, Canada.

[pepper24]

I was watching Wildcard Saturday on CBC this afternoon and Scott Oake said it best about the chuckwagon accident. He really questioned all the protestors intentions and seemed very passionate about the chuckwagon races.

Here's what he said:
- Most of the horses in the chuckwagons are retired thoroughbreds who retire from racing after 2-6 years old
- Most thoroughbreds are slaughtered or put down after racing as there aren't many feasible retirement options.
- Being in the Chuckwagon circuit they get an additional 10-15 years of a high quality life similar their racing days. They are treated extremely well and are able to maintain their active lifestyle. They are racing horses that need to be active. They are born and love to race.
- He then asked an open question to the protestors if they are ok with the alternatives of not having the chuckwagon races (slaughter house, put down etc.).

Would be interesting to hear the protestors rebuttal.

A lot of information I wasn't aware and cements my stance about the good of the chuckwagon races.

[puffnstuff]

Are these local babies we have been abusing or are we having them shipped in from Vancouver?