More police brutality

[Maritime Q-Scout]

General rule of thumb, if you have a gun, I'll listen to you.

Take the same scenario and replace "police" with "gang". So you see gang members assaulting someone, they are armed and outnumber you. Do you play superhero and attack, or call 9-1-1?

Don't try and jump someone with a tazer and a gun. Regardless of who they are. That's just stupid. If you want to play superman go ahead, no need to escalate things worse than they already are.

In the case of police tazing someone in handcuff, by all means say something, video tape, and call 9-1-1 but under no circumstances should you jump on the officer's back. Sweet Moses that's a dumb idea

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

General rule of thumb, if you have a gun, I'll listen to you.

Take the same scenario and replace "police" with "gang". So you see gang members assaulting someone, they are armed and outnumber you. Do you play superhero and attack, or call 9-1-1?

Don't try and jump someone with a tazer and a gun. Regardless of who they are. That's just stupid. If you want to play superman go ahead, no need to escalate things worse than they already are.

In the case of police tazing someone in handcuff, by all means say something, video tape, and call 9-1-1 but under no circumstances should you jump on the officer's back. Sweet Moses that's a dumb idea

Lots of misrepresentations of what I wrote. I didn't suggest a course of action, certainly not assaulting the cop. There's a lot that can be done to protect someone who's being victimized without resorting to violence.

Also, in this scenario the students out numbered the police, not vice versa.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I dont know the full demographic either but I take the claims of the student at face value. Obviously he was upset about something as he was a student. His story makes sense. This has everything to do with submitting to an ID check. If a cop stopped you for no reason and asked for your ID without just cause, you'd be pretty upset too (I hope). Harassment from authority is something we have a right to live free of.

Really? I don't know where you live, but I live in Forest Lawn and am stopped quite frequently. I've never made racial accusations or claimed the cops were out to get me. I handed them my license and other papers and within 5 minutes I was sent on my way. Not really a big deal. Who knows why they stopped me. Could be because my vehicle matched the description of a suspect vehicle or some other totally valid reason.

[Yanda]

Obviously alot of Officers need to be re-trained with Tazers, you shouldnt be able to get away with using a tazer when it is not needed. That guy in the wheelchair should have gotten tazed instead of shot, but there is no reason for the University student to get tazed like 4 times. This miss-use of the Tazer should be punishable and the supervisers should be held accountable for not training their guys properly. If the tazer is going to be miss-used it might as well not be used at all.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Really? I don't know where you live, but I live in Forest Lawn and am stopped quite frequently. I've never made racial accusations or claimed the cops were out to get me. I handed them my license and other papers and within 5 minutes I was sent on my way. Not really a big deal. Who knows why they stopped me. Could be because my vehicle matched the description of a suspect vehicle or some other totally valid reason.

So cops have pulled you over, asked for papers, and then went on their merry way.

And this happens frequently? Do you have anti police bumper stickers??

Originally Posted by MacGruber

Yeah he had a chip on his shoulder. In a library of white kids and asians, he, someone with a different color of skin was the ONLY person asked to show ID.

And contrary to your contention, the independent investigation claims he was leaving when tough guy grabbed him by his arm and escalated things.

Then they started assaulting him with a taser, probably for making them walk across campus and taking away from coffee time.

That's the thing you clearly don't get. You can't just leave or ignore the request. For example, if you jaywalk and are asked for ID, you can't just 'leave'. That will get you arrested. If you continue to resist, police might resort to other use of force tactics at their disposal.

I don't really see the issue with the NYPD one. Admittedly, I ffwd some of it so maybe I missed something. But, if you commit some offense, whatever it is (in this case it looked like he interfered with what was going on there) you are required to produce ID. If you don't and act like a ######, there may be consequences.

With the pet ones, the only one that seems odd is the one where the dog is restrained on a lead. I wonder if there is a lot more to the story.

The chihuahua one is complete crap. IF a dog was shot, I am pretty sure they police wouldn't leave there rounds behind.

Remember that the level of training for police varies throughout the country and the world. Don't judge all police because of some hick town cop that was given a badge and a fun and is "learning" on the job. And comparing campus cops to real police? Seriously?

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

That's the thing you clearly don't get. You can't just leave or ignore the request. For example, if you jaywalk and are asked for ID, you can't just 'leave'. That will get you arrested. If you continue to resist, police might resort to other use of force tactics at their disposal.

They asked him to leave. He was leaving. Seems reasonable the situation should have de-escalated from there.

Also, in the US campus cops are usually real cops but always stationed at universities, and paid for by the university. They aren't mall cops.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

So cops have pulled you over, asked for papers, and then went on their merry way.

And this happens frequently? Do you have anti police bumper stickers??

Yes it does, and absolutely not. I actually like and respect cops unlike you. A couple bad ones aren't going to make me hate 99.9% of the good ones.

The best way to handle a cop is to be nice to them. I've gotten out of so many tickets where I was nice and they only gave me a warning.

As soon as you start the "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO PULL ME OVER!!!" You'll start getting the tickets for your license being slightly damaged among other tickets.

[MacGruber]

I think your mental picture of my relations with cops is badly misguided. I've never been arrested, had issues with the law, or been detained. I was pulled over for speeding once in Camrose and apologized, explaining I was from Calgary and was let off with a warning.

If a cop were to pull me over and ask for ID, the 1st thing I would ask, as anyone here would, is, "is there a problem officer?". This is why I don't buy your story because if the transaction was this:

Cop: Can I have your ID?
Puckluck: Sure! Here ya go.
Cop: Hmmm. Ok. (types up info on computer). Free to go!
Puckluck: bye!

Seems a little odd. Why not ask why you're being stopped? Why he wants your info?

These aren't authority hating questions... it's just basic common sense.

[Yanda]

Originally Posted by puckluck

As soon as you start the "YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO PULL ME OVER!!!" You'll start getting the tickets for your license being slightly damaged among other tickets.

You dont see anything wrong with "If im nice to the cop he will get me off"???

They shouldnt hold that kind of power to decide who gets a ticket or not be it based off of the way you speak to them, your color of skin, sex or anything else redicious. Oh so I have a 2010 Car.. that doesnt mean I should get a ticket because the cop thinks "I can afford it". Either you broke the law and worth pulling over for a ticket or you shouldnt be pulled over.

The entire thing is Biased and you clearly have no problem with that. There is no such thing as a Good Clean Cop.

[SeoulFire]

Ok I lied - I will respond.

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I dont know the full demographic either but I take the claims of the student at face value. Obviously he was upset about something as he was a student. His story makes sense.

You don't know the demographics yet agree with the student's assessment of profiling. You don't know if he was singled out or simply the first in what was intended to be many. You don't know what his actions were at the time of the request but...

This can go on and on.

This has everything to do with submitting to an ID check. If a cop stopped you for no reason and asked for your ID without just cause, you'd be pretty upset too (I hope). Harassment from authority is something we have a right to live free of.

An ID check in a closed area at a restricted time. How is this hard to understand?

I have had my ID checked without just cause - actually quite a few times - it's called a Checkstop. Perhaps you should refuse and stand up for your rights next time you go through one.

Lastly, if having to produce ID upon request in a secured area is defined as harassment - the authorities can feel free to "harass" me.

Lots of misrepresentations of what I wrote. I didn't suggest a course of action, certainly not assaulting the cop. There's a lot that can be done to protect someone who's being victimized without resorting to violence.

Also, in this scenario the students out numbered the police, not vice versa.

No, a course of action was not suggested but it was implicit.

Lot's can be done without violence? Like say "Stop! Or I will say stop again!"?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I think your mental picture of my relations with cops is badly misguided. I've never been arrested, had issues with the law, or been detained. I was pulled over for speeding once in Camrose and apologized, explaining I was from Calgary and was let off with a warning.

If a cop were to pull me over and ask for ID, the 1st thing I would ask, as anyone here would, is, "is there a problem officer?". This is why I don't buy your story because if the transaction was this:

Cop: Can I have your ID?
Puckluck: Sure! Here ya go.
Cop: Hmmm. Ok. (types up info on computer). Free to go!
Puckluck: bye!

Seems a little odd. Why not ask why you're being stopped? Why he wants your info?

These aren't authority hating questions... it's just basic common sense.

So you have no experience with being pulled over and you're trying to be an expert on my handlings with the cop?

Why would I ask why I'm being stopped? why do I care? Cops don't just drive around and harass people for fun. In my experience (obviously a lot more than yours) if you are rude to the cop he will write you a ticket. If you're not he will give you a break.

Originally Posted by MacGruber

They asked him to leave. He was leaving. Seems reasonable the situation should have de-escalated from there.

Also, in the US campus cops are usually real cops but always stationed at universities, and paid for by the university. They aren't mall cops.

I guess I understand it differently then you. And that is the problem with watching a video, making a snap judgement then judging the rest of the profession the same way. See where I am going with this?

How many videos are posted here? 15? Maybe more maybe less, who knows. But there are probably millions of police interactions, on a daily basis in Canada and the US. How do a few videos vs. the millions of police contacts that are positive make you hate police. I just don't get it. You are smart enough to realize people don't post the positive ones aren't you?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Yanda

You dont see anything wrong with "If im nice to the cop he will get me off"???

They shouldnt hold that kind of power to decide who gets a ticket or not be it based off of the way you speak to them, your color of skin, sex or anything else redicious. Oh so I have a 2010 Car.. that doesnt mean I should get a ticket because the cop thinks "I can afford it". Either you broke the law and worth pulling over for a ticket or you shouldnt be pulled over.

The entire thing is Biased and you clearly have no problem with that. There is no such thing as a Good Clean Cop.

Why not? Do you know what cops can give tickets for? Your license slightly scratched? Yep, that's a legit expensive ticket.

You have your old registration and insurance in your car (even if the new ones are in it as well) Yep, that's also a totally legit ticket.

Cops are only humans and don't like giving tickets out, but they need to write some in a month or they wouldn't be doing their jobs. A cop is most likely to want to give a jackass a ticket instead of a nice guy.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

He interfered with the job the police were doing. You can say the cops had no reason to arrest him but he had no reason to stick his nose in what the police were doing.

He was detained for acting like a doosh. I'll bet he was released a short time later.

And MacGruber, just because you can tell a cop to "shove it", there's rarely a reason (unless you're a doosh too) to do so.

Grow up.

He made a joke. He wasnt interfering with anything.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I guess I understand it differently then you. And that is the problem with watching a video, making a snap judgement then judging the rest of the profession the same way. See where I am going with this?

How many videos are posted here? 15? Maybe more maybe less, who knows. But there are probably millions of police interactions, on a daily basis in Canada and the US. How do a few videos vs. the millions of police contacts that are positive make you hate police. I just don't get it. You are smart enough to realize people don't post the positive ones aren't you?

Your right. Most interactions, the overwhelming majority, are positive. But I'm judging these incidents, not the positive ones.

Originally Posted by puckluck

So you have no experience with being pulled over and you're trying to be an expert on my handlings with the cop?

Why would I ask why I'm being stopped? why do I care? Cops don't just drive around and harass people for fun. In my experience (obviously a lot more than yours) if you are rude to the cop he will write you a ticket. If you're not he will give you a break.

"is there a problem officer?" is being rude? whoa. you have a very delicate sense of manners. It's your right to know why you're being detained or pulled over.

Your also right. I think you're not being totally honest. I think that if someone was pulled over "frequently" for no apparent reason they would ask why they were being detained. You've confused asking for information with going on an anti police rant.

edit: if you're rude to a cop he will give you a ticket, and if you aren't things will go smoother and give you a break? i thought you did nothing wrong? what does it matter if your totally innocent how you act?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

"is there a problem officer?" is being rude? whoa. you have a very delicate sense of manners. It's your right to know why you're being detained or pulled over.

Your also right. I think you're not being totally honest. I think that if someone was pulled over "frequently" for no apparent reason they would ask why they were being detained. You've confused asking for information with going on an anti police rant.

Yes asking a lot of questions will get you a ticket. What part of that don't you understand. You've only been pulled over once in your life. I've been pulled over 2 dozen times. You clearly have no idea how a cop handles that situation (unless of course you're a career criminal who hates cops)

Cops don't like when you ask a lot of questions. And I couldn't care less if you think I'm being honest or not, theonlywhiteout.

Anyone who has dealt with cops knows the best thing to save yourself a ticket is to be nice to the cop and not ask any questions. What does asking why you were pulled over solve? He's likely going to lie to you anyways right?

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Ok I lied - I will respond.



You don't know the demographics yet agree with the student's assessment of profiling. You don't know if he was singled out or simply the first in what was intended to be many. You don't know what his actions were at the time of the request but...

This can go on and on.

An ID check in a closed area at a restricted time. How is this hard to understand?

I have had my ID checked without just cause - actually quite a few times - it's called a Checkstop. Perhaps you should refuse and stand up for your rights next time you go through one.

Lastly, if having to produce ID upon request in a secured area is defined as harassment - the authorities can feel free to "harass" me.

No, a course of action was not suggested but it was implicit.

Lot's can be done without violence? Like say "Stop! Or I will say stop again!"?

I dont think were really that far off, we just view authority differently.

I have had my ID checked without just cause - actually quite a few times - it's called a Checkstop. Perhaps you should refuse and stand up for your rights next time you go through one.

Checkstops are legal searches because they check everyone. If checkstops only pulled over perceived Persians or middle easterners, it would certainly be illegal. Agree? So while I understand it was a valid ID check at night in a closed area, they used racial profiling to decide who was going to be checked. That's wrong. Was the student right to stand up to it? Legally no. Morally yes. (imo)

Originally Posted by MacGruber

Your right. Most interactions, the overwhelming majority, are positive. But I'm judging these incidents, not the positive ones.



"is there a problem officer?" is being rude? whoa. you have a very delicate sense of manners. It's your right to know why you're being detained or pulled over.

Your also right. I think you're not being totally honest. I think that if someone was pulled over "frequently" for no apparent reason they would ask why they were being detained. You've confused asking for information with going on an anti police rant.

edit: if you're rude to a cop he will give you a ticket, and if you aren't things will go smoother and give you a break? i thought you did nothing wrong? what does it matter if your totally innocent how you act?

That is the problem. It doesn't seem like you are judging incidences. It seems like you are judging a profession. Or maybe you are just getting mixed in with the anti-police/authority crowd on this forum. Are you friends with Pinner or Mikey?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I dont think were really that far off, we just view authority differently.

I have had my ID checked without just cause - actually quite a few times - it's called a Checkstop. Perhaps you should refuse and stand up for your rights next time you go through one.

Checkstops are legal searches because they check everyone. If checkstops only pulled over perceived Persians or middle easterners, it would certainly be illegal. Agree? So while I understand it was a valid ID check at night in a closed area, they used racial profiling to decide who was going to be checked. That's wrong. Was the student right to stand up to it? Legally no. Morally yes. (imo)

Checkstops check everyone? No they don't. they only check people they think are intoxicated.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about.