BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I wait on bated breath for the guy who can’t bring himself to criticize a single thing his UCP government does but will look for reasons to criticize any government he perceives as “not conservative” across the country to let us know.

I’m sure he’ll find the time. He’ll make the time. He’s so objective!

Yesterday:

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

The reclamation bond/security is not stupid. The visual assessment rules and requirements are stupid. The top grade land thing is pretty neutral.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Yesterday:

A true critic of our times.

[SebC]

Healthcare is really a doctor training problem, which is really a "the politician who trains them doesn't reap the rewards because they leave and the election cycle is too short-term" problem.

If we want more doctors we need to train more doctors. Offering more pay just forces competitors to pay more as well, increasing costs for everyone. Ideally we would have an interprovincial, possibly international agreement to increase doctors supply all over so that a province that trains them doesn't see them all leave to other jurisdictions, yet we maintain liberty for doctors, but restrictive agreements could also work.

This is something the federal government should take lead on. Make it a condition of the healthcare transfers.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SebC

If we want more doctors we need to train more doctors. Offering more pay just forces competitors to pay more as well, increasing costs for everyone. Ideally we would have an interprovincial, possibly international agreement to increase doctors supply all over so that a province that trains them doesn't see them all leave to other jurisdictions, yet we maintain liberty for doctors, but restrictive agreements could also work.

I’d like to see a policy where doctors are refunded 25 per cent of their tuition in each of years 5-8 practicing in Canada.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SebC

Healthcare is really a doctor training problem, which is really a "the politician who trains them doesn't reap the rewards because they leave and the election cycle is too short-term" problem.

If we want more doctors we need to train more doctors. Offering more pay just forces competitors to pay more as well, increasing costs for everyone. Ideally we would have an interprovincial, possibly international agreement to increase doctors supply all over so that a province that trains them doesn't see them all leave to other jurisdictions, yet we maintain liberty for doctors, but restrictive agreements could also work.

This is something the federal government should take lead on. Make it a condition of the healthcare transfers.

Specifically, there needs to be an immediate drive to train more GPs. Currently medical schools have a longer educational period, that gives students flexibility to become specialists. What Canada really needs is a fast track program that pumps out GPs.

It sounds like SFU is trying to work something out:

https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2...-forward-.html

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Specifically, there needs to be an immediate drive to train more GPs. Currently medical schools have a longer educational period, that gives students flexibility to become specialists. What Canada really needs is a fast track program that pumps out GPs.

It sounds like SFU is trying to work something out:

https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2...-forward-.html

I find it hard to believe the 2-3 extra years of schooling our doctors require makes them better at their jobs than doctors in Europe.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I find it hard to believe the 2-3 extra years of schooling our doctors require makes them better at their jobs than doctors in Europe.

That's another good point. We're forcing doctors to do an entire undergrad degree, then do a 4 year medical program, then do a residency, of at least 2 years.

I find it hard to believe we couldn't streamline that 10 year process into a 5-6 year process, specifically to churn out family doctors.

For various specialists, particularly surgeons, we'd obviously want a longer training process. Neurosurgery has a 6-7 year residency program with many doing specialty training afterwards. Totally different situation than what's required of a family doctor though. We want people who are smart/rational and have had good training, but forcing them into 10 years of education, only about half of which directly applies to their actual medical practice seems absurd.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by blankall

That's another good point. We're forcing doctors to do an entire undergrad degree, then do a 4 year medical program, then do a residency, of at least 2 years.

I find it hard to believe we couldn't streamline that 10 year process into a 5-6 year process, specifically to churn out family doctors.

For various specialists, particularly surgeons, we'd obviously want a longer training process. Neurosurgery has a 6-7 year residency program with many doing specialty training afterwards. Totally different situation than what's required of a family doctor though. We want people who are smart/rational and have had good training, but forcing them into 10 years of education, only about half of which directly applies to their actual medical practice seems absurd.

Its about Professional Associations.

Doctors want fewer Doctors. Its a way of driving up costs and ergo their wages. Thats why they increase barriers of entry and why we have to import Doctors from other countries.

[looooob]

UofC already has a 3 year med school, family medicine (a bonafide specialty in its own rights- we aren't in a stage anymore where a 12m rotating internship can teach what is needed * I have lots of other strong feelings about what is going on in the state of family medicine, but I've stated some of that before and don't feel up to it now)



so its really how much prior undergrad is required- a degree is not mandatory- but most have one- frankly that is mostly or in some part related to competition for med school positions- a kid with a great GPA after 3 years of undergrad and who is 20 years old doesn't look always competitive next to someone who has additional life experience (which frankly can be a good thing too- people with diverse backgrounds)


I certainly agree we should train more physicians (as long as we find clinicians with the time and good will to train)

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its about Professional Associations.

Doctors want fewer Doctors. Its a way of driving up costs and ergo their wages. Thats why they increase barriers of entry and why we have to import Doctors from other countries.

with a few exceptions I don't believe that to be all that true TBH

[looooob]

9-12 years in the UK from highschool to qualifying as a GP
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...raining-doctor


Calgary can be as fast as 3+3+2 or 8 years,

a more typical Canadian route would be 4(but could be 3-infiniite) + 4+2 or 10 years

[blankall]

Originally Posted by looooob

with a few exceptions I don't believe that to be all that true TBH

It's definitely true among lawyers and various medical specialists. Not sure about the GP crowd. They likely want more GPs around to staff clinics.

Under the current system most people who enter medical school want to become specialists and there are various barriers to doing so. Many students will go to great lengths, such as completing specialist training halfway across the world, to avoid becoming a GP.

That's why Canada needs more GP only training programs. To allow people who genuinely want to become GPs to do so, as opposed to pressuring those who want to become specialists into filling out the GP ranks.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

In July I was able to book a doctor appointment, get diagnosed with cancer then get the surgery to remove it 6 weeks later.

Congratulations, that's amazing news!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by looooob

9-12 years in the UK from highschool to qualifying as a GP
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...raining-doctor


Calgary can be as fast as 3+3+2 or 8 years,

a more typical Canadian route would be 4(but could be 3-infiniite) + 4+2 or 10 years

Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands are 6 years for GP.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands are 6 years for GP.

A Canadian could also go directly into a UK or Irish based medical school for 5 years after high school, and then complete a 2 year residency in Canada to become fully qualified.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's definitely true among lawyers and various medical specialists. Not sure about the GP crowd. They likely want more GPs around to staff clinics.

.

for sure it can be true in some specialties- especially those competing/sharing finite resources- if there is only so much OR time (for example) those already with the OR time are not keen to give it up, and even getting the more surgeons they are still bottlenecked with lack of ORs so t he system doesn't benefit as much



I think for many of the more primary specialties- including but not limited to family medicine I don't see it as much (not that everyone is the same, nor that everyone is totally benevolent in this regard- but I think many/most recognize there is a lot of work to go around and help is needed)

[blankall]

Originally Posted by looooob

for sure it can be true in some specialties- especially those competing/sharing finite resources- if there is only so much OR time (for example) those already with the OR time are not keen to give it up, and even getting the more surgeons they are still bottlenecked with lack of ORs so t he system doesn't benefit as much



I think for many of the more primary specialties- including but not limited to family medicine I don't see it as much (not that everyone is the same, nor that everyone is totally benevolent in this regard- but I think many/most recognize there is a lot of work to go around and help is needed)

It's definitely not competitive in family medicine. Existing doctors are begging for additional GPs to staff their clinics. The problem is most people who enter medical school don't want to limit themselves to family medicine.

I know UBC tried to set up a specialty rural family medicine program. The problem was most entrants would just straight up lie and say they wanted to do rural medicine, to get their foot in the medical school door, but then transfer out into specialty programs later.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by blankall

It's definitely not competitive in family medicine. Existing doctors are begging for additional GPs to staff their clinics. The problem is most people who enter medical school don't want to limit themselves to family medicine.

I know UBC tried to set up a specialty rural family medicine program. The problem was most entrants would just straight up lie and say they wanted to do rural medicine, to get their foot in the medical school door, but then transfer out into specialty programs later.

even those that feel they do want to do family medicine, most (for a variety of simple and complex reasons) aren't interested in being the family doctor we have a romantic notion of (buying into a practice etc etc). some med schools are refocusing curriculum to funnel many or most into family practice but alot of those folks really just want to locum, work part time, work surgical assist, work as hospitalist attendings, work in sports med, derm med etc

[SebC]

Originally Posted by blankall

That's another good point. We're forcing doctors to do an entire undergrad degree, then do a 4 year medical program, then do a residency, of at least 2 years.

I find it hard to believe we couldn't streamline that 10 year process into a 5-6 year process, specifically to churn out family doctors.

Oh yeah the undergrad degree is entirely silly, because it can be anything which means they don't actually need it at all.


"Only the best will get in after year 3." Like, why? What changes in fourth year? We just do the "draft" at 17/18 out of high school. The top prospects then are going to be mostly the same top prospects four years later anyways.

[opendoor]

Nurse Practitioners will also play a role and they don't show up in doctors per 100K numbers. I have a good friend who is one in BC and 5 years ago he had to move across the province to get a job, but now they're everywhere and they're creating more positions every month.

They're not necessarily significantly cheaper than GPs, but they're definitely easier to train. Any practising nurse with 3 years experience can do 2 more years of school to become one. And they can cover a lot of the walk-in clinic type roles.