Alberta Politics Thread v2

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Pick any other service to use as the example, I brought one up that people have been waiting for Kenney’s position on. To label that as “fear mongering” is about as laughable as the tactics you proposed a few pages back on how to resolve a strike with public sector employees.



Taking away their funding would most likely lead to those facilities closing, otherwise they probably wouldn’t be publicly funded in the first place. What exactly would those private clinics sue the government for?



So if I understand you correctly, you don’t disagree with me doing what you label as “fear mongering”, you’d just prefer that I do it using a different argument? I’ll be sure to take that into consideration.

Do you know how you family Doctor is funded?

They are paid on a per service basis. Places like the Kensington abortion clinic are paid on a per service basis. So the government can’t just cut funding to a clinic. It would have to end public funding of abortion services in general. If it tried to do that it would be sued.

Also hospitals already perform abortions as well so unless you try to defund the specific procedure you aren’t causing a hospital to close down.

You do not understand me correctly. I would still object to your Kenny smearing if you used that approach but at least we could have a discussion on something Kenny could or could not do as opposed to your hypothetical which is not possible to implement given how abortion services and medical services in general are funded in Alberta.

The issue here is that you didn’t use any other service. You used Abortion intentionally to bring up the boogeyman.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Do you know how you family Doctor is funded?

Yes

They are paid on a per service basis. Places like the Kensington abortion clinic are paid on a per service basis. So the government can’t just cut funding to a clinic. It would have to end public funding of abortion services in general. If it tried to do that it would be sued.

I think you’re really reaching here, your suggested argument that they could require all abortions be performed at a hospital would have the exact same effect on those clinics. So are you agreeing with me that they can restrict funding for abortion clinics? Why would those clinics be able to sue in one scenario and not be able to sue in the other if the end result is that same?

You do not understand me correctly. I would still object to your Kenny smearing if you used that approach but at least we could have a discussion on something g Kenny could or could not do as opposed to your hypothetical which is not possible to implement given how abortion services and medical services in general are funded in Alberta.

I don’t believe it’s smearing to point out verifiable flaws in Kenney’s “guarantee” and I believe it is important to discuss these potential scenarios so that voters can make informed decisions on Election Day. If I were to argue that he will absolutely take the steps to eliminate funding for these clinics just because it’s a possibility then that would be smearing or fear mongering, but I’m not doing that.

The issue here is that you didn’t use any other service. You used Abortion intentionally to bring up the boogeyman.

Which other services would you like to use as an example? I’ve given my reason why I used abortion as an example, if you want to assume I used it to bring up the boogeyman well you’re clearly entitled to your opinion. But that doesn’t make it a fact, which it isn’t, yet that is how you’re presenting your opinion. To quote you: you can do better.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by GGG

Do you know how you family Doctor is funded?

They are paid on a per service basis. Places like the Kensington abortion clinic are paid on a per service basis. So the government can’t just cut funding to a clinic. It would have to end public funding of abortion services in general. If it tried to do that it would be sued.

Also hospitals already perform abortions as well so unless you try to defund the specific procedure you aren’t causing a hospital to close down.

You do not understand me correctly. I would still object to your Kenny smearing if you used that approach but at least we could have a discussion on something Kenny could or could not do as opposed to your hypothetical which is not possible to implement given how abortion services and medical services in general are funded in Alberta.

The issue here is that you didn’t use any other service. You used Abortion intentionally to bring up the boogeyman.

We would know more about Kenney and the UCPs position on it, had they debated it. Otherwise people are free to create their own narrative on it.

But, the government at the time can certainly provide less per person per service at an abortion clinic. It could also siphon off grant money to clinics to other centres aimed at eliminating abortion. This happens in the states.

Finally, the NDP have improved access to medication and plan to improve services outside of CALGARY and Edmonton. That can all be taken away.

Up until 2015 Alberta had the worst access to abortion clinics for women.



https://globalnews.ca/news/2390226/p...across-canada/



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[Ozy_Flame]

Has Kenney said where he's going to start slashing if not Healthcare?

Natural attrition is a strategy to in effect "cut" the size of the bureaucracy, but that is playing the very long game. Something is going to have to give in the short term if we are to cut the deficit. Carbon tax will be gone (although something in disguise might end up replacing it), and it's political suicide to put in PST even though we badly need it.

So buckle up, I feel something is going to get cut, and it's not going to be pretty. My guess is K-12 education, Social Services in various areas (disability, AISH), Municipal Affairs, Environment and Parks, Culture and Tourism, and Service Alberta.

Everything comes at a cost. That Kenney tweet looks good for the papers, but you can't have that cake and eat it too.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Carbon tax will be gone (although something in disguise might end up replacing it)

It's a Federal requirement to have a provincial Carbon Tax approved by the federal government or to use the federal one at this point.

Until the Saskatchewan lawsuit is over, I don't think you can say that the Carbon Tax will be gone. It likely won't be.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Carbon tax will be gone (although something in disguise might end up replacing it), and it's political suicide to put in PST even though we badly need it.

The federal carbon tax will end up being implemented in Alberta if we don’t have our own, assuming the liberals remain in office at the federal level. So we’ll keep paying it(or more) but instead of those funds remaining in Alberta they would go to the federal government.

[Ozy_Flame]

This is basically what I mean. We can expect a carbon tax replacement, even if Kenney provides the feel good moment on Day 1 of getting rid of it. It's going to come back in another version. I wonder what his base will think about that when they rabble about no carbon taxes and Kenney can deliver on that promise.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think Kenney actually has it pretty good. They'll ceremoniously remove the Carbon Tax knowing he will be forced to take the federal Carbon Tax the next day but the headline will say that Kenney removes Carbon Tax from the Sun and Herald. Most of his supporters will not understand the implication and cheer for their hero.

Those that follow the story will naturally (and I suppose correctly) blame the federal government when the Carbon Tax is still around. But probably a large percentage really won't know that the federal replaced the provincial Carbon Tax and will just assume that, had it not been for Kenney, we would have had a federal and provincial Carbon Tax.

I think it will be a having his cake and eating it too moment. Gets "rid" of the Carbon Tax but keeps the revenue from the Carbon Tax.

[Flamenspiel]

The problem with the carbon tax and the emissions cap was that Notley gave it up without getting any in return from the feds. Thats just bad politics. She was playing win-win while they were playing a win-lose game.

BC got a whole bunch of goodies and we will see what Saskatchewan and Ontario get as part of these lawsuits.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The problem with the carbon tax and the emissions cap was that Notley gave it up without getting any in return from the feds. Thats just bad politics. She was playing win-win while they were playing a win-lose game.

BC got a whole bunch of goodies and we will see what Saskatchewan and Ontario get as part of these lawsuits.

She was pretty much lied to by the Federal Government, the BC government, the Ontario Government at that time and the Quebec Government.


Lead the way on a carbon tax and you'll get social license and it will help you get the pipelines built.


Kenny won't removed the carbon tax unless one of two things happen.


Sask wins this court challenge.


Kenny wins and blackmails the federal government with a threat to force open the constitution via equalization, which creates a whole ton of problems for the Federal Government.

[CaptainCrunch]

wrong post

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

The problem with the carbon tax and the emissions cap was that Notley gave it up without getting any in return from the feds.

What could she have gotten? This wasn't a negotiation. It was "you guys have until X date to come up with a carbon tax and if you do, you decide where the revenue goes or you will use ours and we will decide where the revenue goes." There really wasn't concessions given, at worst you can blame Notley for implementing it a bit earlier to earn street-environmental-cred to try and help secure the pipeline.

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

BC got a whole bunch of goodies and we will see what Saskatchewan and Ontario get as part of these lawsuits.

Please give a list of these goodies.

Also we know what the Saskatchewan and Ontario will get if they lose the lawsuits - the federal Carbon Tax.

[CaptainCrunch]

Kenney announces that if elected all MLA's will take a 5% paycut and the Premiere 10%.


More symbolic then anything else.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Kenney announces that if elected all MLA's will take a 5% paycut and the Premiere 10%.


More symbolic then anything else.

Kenney should work for free, as that's all he's worth!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Kenney should work for free, as that's all he's worth!

So when do we get the refund from Notley?

[lambeburger]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Kenney announces that if elected all MLA's will take a 5% paycut and the Premiere 10%.

[GRAMMAR NAZI]
Premier: first in position, rank, or importance

Premiere: a first performance or exhibition
[/GRAMMAR NAZI]

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So when do we get the refund from Notley?

Look at her before the election and at her now. She has given 20 years of her life to become premier! I'd give her an extra $50k/year

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

[GRAMMAR NAZI]
Premier: first in position, rank, or importance

Premiere: a first performance or exhibition
[/GRAMMAR NAZI]

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Has Kenney said where he's going to start slashing if not Healthcare?

Natural attrition is a strategy to in effect "cut" the size of the bureaucracy, but that is playing the very long game. Something is going to have to give in the short term if we are to cut the deficit. Carbon tax will be gone (although something in disguise might end up replacing it), and it's political suicide to put in PST even though we badly need it.

So buckle up, I feel something is going to get cut, and it's not going to be pretty. My guess is K-12 education, Social Services in various areas (disability, AISH), Municipal Affairs, Environment and Parks, Culture and Tourism, and Service Alberta.

Everything comes at a cost. That Kenney tweet looks good for the papers, but you can't have that cake and eat it too.

Would be nice to see the cuts come totally from Salaries. As we know, we already pay a huge premium to our public sector employees, yet our outcomes in most measures are below Canadian averages.

As we've seen, massive increases in spending has had virtually no correlation to results or outcomes. There's no reason to believe (other than union advertising) that cuts would make any change to service delivery.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Would be nice to see the cuts come totally from Salaries. As we know, we already pay a huge premium to our public sector employees, yet our outcomes in most measures are below Canadian averages.

This intrigues me. Can you provide examples with links? This comment suggests that our public service folks are less effective/efficient than other provinces.