Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[surferguy]

I wonder if this ISIS Jihadist crap is the result of the new dude from Aus? UK? being on board the CPC campaign now? What was his name

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

what a ridiculous statement

I think you probably misinterpreted me saying the article I posted is what they want (although lets not kid ourselves, the Reform element of the CPC wants abortion banned). I was talking about the neoncon fear mongering of that stupid ass flyer and the one we saw yesterday.

I know you're a staunch CPC supporter, but they have significantly dumbed down Canadian politics, and have adopted all the trademarks of the US Republican machine. Take it from someone who follows American politics extensively, its the same things except on a much lower budget (which you can clearly tell). It's all about appealing the emotion and not really caring about facts or reality.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

what a ridiculous statement

It should read:

"This is what the CPC practices, American style politics where fear and lies and appealing to uninformed swing voters generally win."

Edit:
I posted this article long ago in this thread, but it's worth a repost for those who haven't read it to look at the CPC campaign strategy.
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015...l-win-election

Relevant quote from the article

“Close campaigns are decided by the least informed, least engaged voters,” Muttart once told Jennifer Lees-Marshment, a New Zealand-based political scientist. “These voters do not go looking for political news and information. This necessitates brutally simple communication with clear choices that hits the voter, whether they like it or not.”

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by surferguy

I wonder if this ISIS Jihadist crap is the result of the new dude from Aus? UK? being on board the CPC campaign now? What was his name

Probably has much more to do with the fact that fighting ISIS is an issue that the CPC is far far ahead of the other parties on in connecting with Canadians, wouldn't you think?

[polak]

Wow that CPC flyer is pathetic.

Something you'd expect to see in Texas.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Probably has much more to do with the fact that fighting ISIS is an issue that the CPC is far far ahead of the other parties on in connecting with Canadians, wouldn't you think?

There is much bigger fish to fry for our country right now, including but not limited to the tanking economy, environment, rights to privacy issues, muzzling of scientists and research, boondoggling of military contracts, the incoming refugee crisis for Canada, etc.

Focusing on ISIS is a very early 2000's Republican-style strategy that wants to distract voters and have them vote on pure emotional fear, when in reality this is an issue that doesn't even come close to other pressing issues.

[Senator Clay Davis]

^Nevermind that ISIS has no aspiration to attack the West, as they are simply fighting right now to keep the territory they have. Al Qaeda is still a much bigger direct threat to the West than ISIS is. But ISIS has recency and the beheading videos, which scares the already frightened.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Probably has much more to do with the fact that fighting ISIS is an issue that the CPC is far far ahead of the other parties on in connecting with Canadians, wouldn't you think?

No. Like I asked, I wonder if it is a result of this campaign guy trying to bring up the fear of ISIS and throw it in our face.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

There is much bigger fish to fry for our country right now, including but not limited to the tanking economy, environment, rights to privacy issues, muzzling of scientists and research, boondoggling of military contracts, the incoming refugee crisis for Canada, etc.

Focusing on ISIS is a very early 2000's Republican-style strategy that wants people to vote for the "tough on terrorists" party, when in reality this is an issue that doesn't even come close to other pressing issues.

Other than perhaps the economy, the CPC is not much clearly 'ahead' on any of those issues.

So of course they are going to promote the ISIS issue to highlight a positive difference in policy. Regardless of your personal preferences, Canadians do consider ISIS and terrorism a consistent major issue.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Basically, I'd like a situation where 4-5 years from now we're looking at 3 good alternatives. That's probably wishful thinking, but I suppose it's not impossible. The party that will have the hardest time will be the Conservatives, and what they could be post-Harper.

The three party set up currently really benefits the conservatives. While the left is split between two major parties and the lesser Greens, the right is consolidated under the CPC spanning from centrist progressive conservatives to the nut bars who buy the jihadi fear mongering and more.

It's almost as though Canada needs its own Tea Party equivalent on the national stage to split the right as well and have more representative balance.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Other than perhaps the economy, the CPC is not much clearly 'ahead' on any of those issues.

So of course they are going to promote the ISIS issue to highlight a positive difference in policy. Regardless of your personal preferences, Canadians do consider ISIS and terrorism a consistent major issue.

Strikes me as "we have no real solid answer for anything, but . . . . the terrorists! Think of the terrorists!! ISIS is coming to kill us!"

Naive, obnoxious propaganda that panders to the fear-mongering elements of society. Focusing on the wrong stuff, IMO.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by surferguy

I wonder if this ISIS Jihadist crap is the result of the new dude from Aus? UK? being on board the CPC campaign now? What was his name

Lynton Crosby. I would say it is a result of him but also Harper. This has his fingerprints all over it and he did similar things in the UK and Australian elections.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Strikes me as "we have no real solid answer for anything, but . . . . the terrorists! Think of the terrorists!! ISIS is coming to kill us!"

Naive, obnoxious propaganda that panders to the fear-mongering elements of society. Focusing on the wrong stuff, IMO.

Strikes me as "well of all the top 10 issues Canadians have indicated as important in this election, the one we are clearly identified by Canadians of all stripes as having the strongest policy of all parties is ISIS and terrorism. If we put out advertising we might to highlight those policies."

Suggesting otherwise could be seen as obnoxious propaganda that panders to the extreme anti-american elements of left-wing Canadian society.

Ignoring the clearly obvious. IMO.

[Ozy_Flame]

Uhhh, what? How does ISIS not being at the top of the priority list have anything to do with extreme anti-American elements of left-wing Canadian society? What kind of connection are you making here????????

Sounds like you're reaching pretty far to support the CPC in their ISIS issue. More power to you if you think that's the big issue of the day, but I'm positive there are way more important things right now than that. I have not heard a peep about ISIS from anyone I know talking about the federal election; it's mostly about the economy and our current government's track record.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It's almost as though Canada needs its own Tea Party equivalent on the national stage to split the right as well and have more representative balance.

We did have that—the Reform Party. Then the parties merged and now the once leader of the Canadian version of the Tea Party is running the country. That is how bonkers the current Conservative Party is—they are run by the extreme right wing. The only thing that has kept the Conservatives from being completely crazy for the past ten years is that they were in minority positions for the first half of their reign, which forced them to be more centrist than they are. But really, other than the economy, most of their policies are reductive and ideologically driven, and have eroded the rights and freedoms of Canadians at home and the national reputation abroad. I truly believe that history will look back very unkindly to the last ten years of Canadian politics. And what's even more bonkers is Harper's economic record isn't even that strong. It's just not terrible. What you're seeing as a vote split on the left is really just confusion from the majority of Canadians over who to vote for, as the paradigm that used to define the country—Liberal vs Conservative—has been completely upturned over the past decade by the death of the Progressive Conservatives and the dismantling of the Liberals. What is left is a voter population with still some of the same notions that pre-date this shift and a confusion of where on the spectrum the parties actually stand. In many ways, the Liberals are looking like the most left wing party in this election, which would not be traditionally what people would gravitate towards. The NDP have some fairly conservative policies but still play under the banner of "the socialist party" in many people's minds. So people don't know who to vote for, and so you see this three way race. What is interesting is that it might actually force people to listen to the actual positions of the parties rather than just vote on outdated party lines.

The nuts thing is that if you don't want a Reform style party in power but still are a conservative voter, the best bet might be to vote NDP, which is absolutely bonkers.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

We did have that—the Reform Party. Then the parties merged and now the once leader of the Canadian version of the Tea Party is running the country. That is how bonkers the current Conservative Party is—they are run by the extreme right wing. The only thing that has kept the Conservatives from being completely crazy for the past ten years is that they were in minority positions for the first half of their reign, which forced them to be more centrist than they are. But really, other than the economy, most of their policies are reductive and ideologically driven, and have eroded the rights and freedoms of Canadians at home and the national reputation abroad. I truly believe that history will look back very unkindly to the last ten years of Canadian politics. And what's even more bonkers is Harper's economic record isn't even that strong. It's just not terrible. What you're seeing as a vote split on the left is really just confusion from the majority of Canadians over who to vote for, as the paradigm that used to define the country—Liberal vs Conservative—has been completely upturned over the past decade by the death of the Progressive Conservatives and the dismantling of the Liberals. What is left is a voter population with still some of the same notions that pre-date this shift and a confusion of where on the spectrum the parties actually stand. In many ways, the Liberals are looking like the most left wing party in this election, which would not be traditionally what people would gravitate towards. The NDP have some fairly conservative policies but still play under the banner of "the socialist party" in many people's minds. So people don't know who to vote for, and so you see this three way race. What is interesting is that it might actually force people to listen to the actual positions of the parties rather than just vote on outdated party lines.

The nuts thing is that if you don't want a Reform style party in power but still are a conservative voter, the best bet might be to vote NDP, which is absolutely bonkers.

Well to be fair though, the current CPC has gone against a lot of the Reform party ideals and objectives. While the Reform party had some policies I disliked, they were for accountability and openness. We surely don't see any of that today with the CPC. The candidates skipping debates, not answering questions and just generally thwarting democracy is something that the Reform party never did. They were the exact opposite in fact; say what you will about their policies or ideas, but they were a genuine democratic party underneath that.

Truthfully, there are a number of ideals that the CPC has completely abandoned from those roots. Their fiscal platform is completely different, and looking at their track record I have a hard time thinking that Preston Manning would be thrilled with what he saw there.

The muzzling of scientists and ideas of controlling or outright hiding data is also something that flies in the face of the Reform movement. I can't help but think that if they still existed they would be battling this conservative incarnation just like they were with Mulroney and his cronies in the late 80's and early 90's.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well to be fair though, the current CPC has gone against a lot of the Reform party ideals and objectives. While the Reform party had some policies I disliked, they were for accountability and openness. We surely don't see any of that today with the CPC. The candidates skipping debates, not answering questions and just generally thwarting democracy is something that the Reform party never did. They were the exact opposite in fact; say what you will about their policies or ideas, but they were a genuine democratic party underneath that.

Truthfully, there are a number of ideals that the CPC has completely abandoned from those roots. Their fiscal platform is completely different, and looking at their track record I have a hard time thinking that Preston Manning would be thrilled with what he saw there.

The muzzling of scientists and ideas of controlling or outright hiding data is also something that flies in the face of the Reform movement. I can't help but think that if they still existed they would be battling this conservative incarnation just like they were with Mulroney and his cronies in the late 80's and early 90's.

Yeah that's true. The current Conservatives are a weird breed. They are like the worst of everything rolled into one, but with a "stable economy" line that gets way more play than it deserves.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Slava

The candidates skipping debates, not answering questions

The CPC only got elected after Harper smartly muzzled the fringes of his party.
People like to say that it was the Liberal scandals, but I believe if Harper isn't running a campaign where he is the only voice he never gets here. The difference this election over the previous ones are that the fringes are leaking out again, and I think that's what is going to cost them.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by surferguy

I wonder if this ISIS Jihadist crap is the result of the new dude from Aus? UK? being on board the CPC campaign now? What was his name

Crap? Looking at the pic, is there anything in there that is not true? I suggest you look into it, those quotes are accurate.

Hey, just because your safe on the beach surferguy, it does not mean that others are safe. It depends on your environment, i don;t need to be as worried about sharks as you do...

In terms of terrorist acts, you really only see the tip of the iceburg.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The CPC only got elected after Harper smartly muzzled the fringes of his party.
People like to say that it was the Liberal scandals, but I believe if Harper isn't running a campaign where he is the only voice he never gets here. The difference this election over the previous ones are that the fringes are leaking out again, and I think that's what is going to cost them.

Well muzzling the fringes is one thing, and really all the parties struggle with this because there are a lot of weirdos interested in running for office for all of them. But seriously, the outright refusal of him to answer questions or meet with people who aren't vetted isn't in the same vein. Neither is skipping public forums by candidates. Its entirely distasteful and anti-democratic.