Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[you&me]

Originally Posted by GGG

And this is where the debate should center around charter schools. It rarely does because people don’t understand what a charter school is.

The question around a charter school is really an age old question of whether there are positive outcomes to placing high potential students together and separate from lower potential students. Or whether everyone together lifts all the boats.

From teacher and admin people I know, that is definitely not the case.

However, I would venture to say that the opposite is likely equally true - lower potential students have a negative effect on higher potential students.

[puffnstuff]

Ew

https://pressprogress.ca/pierre-poil...ks-in-schools/

[Ozy_Flame]

Danielle Smith was also doing an interview with fascist Caillou tonight. 40 minutes with this chud. Yeah. It goes exactly as you expect.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

And this is where the debate should center around charter schools. It rarely does because people don’t understand what a charter school is.

The question around a charter school is really an age old question of whether there are positive outcomes to placing high potential students together and separate from lower potential students. Or whether everyone together lifts all the boats.

Our daughter went to GATE for a couple of years and hated it. Sure they were all smart but not necessarily socially typical plus they came from all over the city so it was not conducive to friendships. That’s a concern with charter schools too. If everyone is STEM or some other specialization where’s the diversity? And should kids specialize so early?

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by #-3

The CBE offers Arts, GATE, STEM, TLC, Montessori, Indigenous, All Girls, All Boys, and Language Specific Schools, Career & Tech... often rejecting students. In fact I applied one of my kids for one of these programs and was rejected. So the CBE does not grantee acceptance in any program they offer.

Which one?

[#-3]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Which one?

Louis Riel school.

This is very normal, the CBE it's runs a lot of schools that operate exactly as most of these charter schools do.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by #-3

Louis Riel school.

This is very normal, the CBE it's runs a lot of schools that operate exactly as most of these charter schools do.

I don’t think this is actually true. When you get “rejected” by a CBE school, it’s related strictly to capacity, and they have specific area designations that determine order of priority. In that case, you are then moved to the regular program school or the overflow school. You are guaranteed acceptance in a CBE school, you just don’t always get your first choice.

With charter schools this isn’t the case. You can be rejected on other grounds, kicked out on other grounds, and once that happens it’s up to you to find an alternative option.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by #-3

louis riel school.

This is very normal, the cbe it's runs a lot of schools that operate exactly as most of these charter schools do.

gate?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

The difference is you are guaranteed to be offered a spot in a public school, and typically that spot will be at the one most geographically adjacent to you.

You will not be guaranteed a spot in a charter school as admission requirements go beyond geography.

Nobody is guaranteed a spot in the CBE Science Schools (ie Louis Riel). Applications far exceed capacity, and admissions are determined by a lottery weighted by geography and if siblings attend the school.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nobody is guaranteed a spot in the CBE Science Schools (ie Louis Riel). Applications far exceed capacity, and admissions are determined by a lottery weighted by geography and if siblings attend the school.

They’re still guaranteed a spot in a CBE school.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Ah, yes. The "charter schools are public schools" crowd out in full force! They're not.

Any school that can turn kids away who don't "fit" their mould are not public schools. They selectively admit students who will succeed and cater to school shopping parents who have the time, resources, ability, etc., to seek them out and set their children up to get in.

How do you feel about Francosud in Alberta. They are a public school board across Alberta but they have guidelines for admission and students/families are turned away from this public system if they don't meet those.

The guidelines include:
To be eligible for entitlement status , you must meet one of the following three criteria:

1. Canadian citizen whose first language learned and still understood is French; OR
2. Canadian citizen who received primary education in French in Canada , OR
3. Canadian citizen whose child has received or is receiving primary or secondary education in French as a first language in Canada.

For Special cases:
A temporary or permanent resident whose child has received or is receiving instruction, at the primary or secondary level , in French as a first language in Canada , has the right to have all of his or her children educated in a FrancoSud school, at the primary and secondary levels.

And there are 5 exceptional case situations which you can read here:
https://francosud.ca/accueil/ecoles/admissibilite/

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

They’re still guaranteed a spot in a CBE school.

Not sure why that’s relevant. If you’re denied admission to a charter school, you’re also guaranteed a spot in a CBE school.

Let’s say you’re parents who want their nerdy kid to go to a nerdy school. You apply to both the CBE Science program and the STEM Innovation Academy. How is one more exclusionary than the other?

[Fuzz]

I just can't help but think it's entirely inefficient to have all these different boards and different providers. Instead of a kid going to the closest school, which may be a religious one, they opt for public but then need be bussed further. Smaller communities end up with 2 or 3 schools when they could have one. Not to mention the administrative overhead that's probably duplicated across different boards. Is this really the best way to spend limited education dollars?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Nenshi had it right. Great, fund more schools, but why make a blanket announcement out side of a budget to do so? Didn't they know this was a problem? Will there be another random weeknight presser announcing funding for teachers, EAs and other support staff?

Populists love pressers like this. Wo/man of the people

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I just can't help but think it's entirely inefficient to have all these different boards and different providers. Instead of a kid going to the closest school, which may be a religious one, they opt for public but then need be bussed further. Smaller communities end up with 2 or 3 schools when they could have one. Not to mention the administrative overhead that's probably duplicated across different boards. Is this really the best way to spend limited education dollars?

Public programs are not about efficiencies and low cost. Those are principles of private enterprise.

We can't be running our public systems like a business.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Not sure why that’s relevant. If you’re denied admission to a charter school, you’re also guaranteed a spot in a CBE school.

Let’s say you’re parents who want their nerdy kid to go to a nerdy school. You apply to both the CBE Science program and the STEM Innovation Academy. How is one more exclusionary than the other?

You’re making the point you’re arguing against. If you’re denied admission to a charter school, you’re guaranteed a spot at a CBE school, because you’re guaranteed a spot at a CBE school no matter what. That’s why the funding model should prioritize the system where everyone is guaranteed an education.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Public programs are not about efficiencies and low cost. Those are principles of private enterprise.

We can't be running our public systems like a business.

This isn't the mic drop you think it is. But hey, wasting tax dollars is time honoured Conservative tradition.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re making the point you’re arguing against. If you’re denied admission to a charter school, you’re guaranteed a spot at a CBE school, because you’re guaranteed a spot at a CBE school no matter what. That’s why the funding model should prioritize the system where everyone is guaranteed an education.

Not really he asking why it makes sense for the CBE to run exclusionary programs if the objection to charters is based on that there are exclusionary programs.

Why does which non-profit entity running the exclusionary school matter? Both are cherry picking quality students to offer custom education options.

There are two questions to discuss separately around charters

Should segregated schools exist and what types of segregation are acceptable.

And

What is the best way to fund and operate segrated schools. My main concern is around the limited recognition that the cost of educating each student is different even among non-codes students so per capita based funding for cherry picked students is a poor way to fund schools and will lead to skewed evaluation of performance of those schools.

Cliff is commenting on only the first question you are answering only about the second question.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not really he asking why it makes sense for the CBE to run exclusionary programs if the objection to charters is based on that there are exclusionary programs.

Why does which non-profit entity running the exclusionary school matter? Both are cherry picking quality students to offer custom education options.

Because the CBE doesn’t run “exclusionary” programs. Something like GATE isn’t “cherry picking quality students,” it’s a program for children with special needs who have, presumably, not had those needs met up to Grade 3 and have had an assessment done showing they are “gifted.” These are students that may actually be struggling academically and socially in the primary education stream.

That’d be like arguing ESL is an exclusionary program because it cherry picks quality students.

Charter schools, on the other hand, can and do pick and choose students based on criteria that often does not involve special needs, and in fact, in many, special needs are unwelcome.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nobody is guaranteed a spot in the CBE Science Schools (ie Louis Riel). Applications far exceed capacity, and admissions are determined by a lottery weighted by geography and if siblings attend the school.

Yeah, I'm pretty aware, my kids go to one of them.

The difference is they didn't look at my kids grades or profile when they were applying for entry. Their names went in a hat.

That's significantly different from subjecting them to an IQ test:

https://www.westmountcharter.com/admissions/