Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[#-3]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

If everyone has direct access to a charter school, if they dont pick and choose who they admit, if theres no waiting list...then yes, its a public school, but the access isnt the same, so its not a public school like the rest of them.

And its been a while now, but when one of mine was young and had a hearing issue leading to the need for speech therapy it wasnt provided by a private company. It was done at the Childrens Hospital by AHS staff.

Not everyone has access to every public school, I would guess you could show up to 85+% of public schools in Calgary, ask to register your kid, they will ask you for your address and refuse your application, and even if they do accept your application, there is still a chance they will redirect you to a different school without your input.

They are public schools because of the funding model, and because of their requirements to report what they spend their money.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

What do you think the charter schools in Alberta are focusing on?

Well, obviously creating strands of conservative milfoil like you. What else?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Well, obviously creating strands of conservative milfoil like you. What else?

Do I spread this milfoil on me to attract the ladies or do I spread it on them when we are fooling around?

[Ozy_Flame]

That's some JD Vance ####, you weirdo.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Nenshi had it right. Great, fund more schools, but why make a blanket announcement out side of a budget to do so? Didn't they know this was a problem? Will there be another random weeknight presser announcing funding for teachers, EAs and other support staff?

[FireGilbert]

As someone who grew up in Alberta and now lives in Australia, two of the worst things about my new country are the predominance of private hospitals and private schools with public money propping up both. Feels like a scam to trick the aspirational middle class into subsidising the health and education of the wealthy.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Nenshi had it right. Great, fund more schools, but why make a blanket announcement out side of a budget to do so? Didn't they know this was a problem? Will there be another random weeknight presser announcing funding for teachers, EAs and other support staff?

They did have a press conference this summer, obviously not to the same amount of fanfare, to announce a boost in the education operating budget of $125M for this school year.

[Samonadreau]

Maybe we could let this play out for more then 24 hrs.

We asked funding. It is overdue but we may have now have it.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

If everyone has direct access to a charter school, if they dont pick and choose who they admit, if theres no waiting list...then yes, its a public school, but the access isnt the same, so its not a public school like the rest of them.

And its been a while now, but when one of mine was young and had a hearing issue leading to the need for speech therapy it wasnt provided by a private company. It was done at the Childrens Hospital by AHS staff.

When I was mentioning speech delays I was referring to Renfew and PACE kids which are both not for profit societies offering publicly funded services for students with different needs. I don’t believe they are charters because of the limited access but they are an example of well functioning private non-profit delivery of public services in the educational space.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Maybe we could let this play out for more then 24 hrs.

We asked funding. It is overdue but we may have now have it.

Sorry, what funding did we ask for and what exactly is being delivered?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by #-3

Not everyone has access to every public school, I would guess you could show up to 85+% of public schools in Calgary, ask to register your kid, they will ask you for your address and refuse your application, and even if they do accept your application, there is still a chance they will redirect you to a different school without your input.

And specialized programs at CBE schools often have admission criteria of their own and waiting lists. Highwood's Mandarin elementary program usually has a lottery system because demand is higher than seats available, and not every student is going to get accepted to the IB programs.

[Bill Bumface]

The difference is you are guaranteed to be offered a spot in a public school, and typically that spot will be at the one most geographically adjacent to you.

You will not be guaranteed a spot in a charter school as admission requirements go beyond geography.

As someone mentioned earlier, this creates two tiers in a sense, and a failure mode of this system is all of the stronger students getting siphoned off into charter schools, and public schools are left to deal with the more difficult students without the funding model reflecting the reality that those students take far more resources.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

The difference is you are guaranteed to be offered a spot in a public school, and typically that spot will be at the one most geographically adjacent to you.

You will not be guaranteed a spot in a charter school as admission requirements go beyond geography.

As someone mentioned earlier, this creates two tiers in a sense, and a failure mode of this system is all of the stronger students getting siphoned off into charter schools, and public schools are left to deal with the more difficult students without the funding model reflecting the reality that those students take far more resources.

Charter schools are public schools. You are guaranteed a spot in a public school. If you want to go to your cachement school you're guaranteed a spot. If you want to go to a charter or a regular school outside your cachement you might get in, you might not, but you will never end up without a school, so I think that part of the argument doesn't hold water.

I agree with concern about skimming stronger/easier students. Ideally there would be charter schools that cater to higher needs students to help offset that. I have no idea if that is the case.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Charter schools are public schools. You are guaranteed a spot in a public school. If you want to go to your cachement school you're guaranteed a spot. If you want to go to a charter or a regular school outside your cachement you might get in, you might not, but you will never end up without a school, so I think that part of the argument doesn't hold water.

I agree with concern about skimming stronger/easier students. Ideally there would be charter schools that cater to higher needs students to help offset that. I have no idea if that is the case.

It is not true that you are guaranteed a spot in your catchment school. They have botched this so bad that the catchment schools are full and lotteries to get in. If you lose the lottery you are shipped off somewhere else, so I guess you are guaranteed a spot but not in the catchment.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Charter schools are public schools. You are guaranteed a spot in a public school. If you want to go to your cachement school you're guaranteed a spot. If you want to go to a charter or a regular school outside your cachement you might get in, you might not, but you will never end up without a school, so I think that part of the argument doesn't hold water.

I agree with concern about skimming stronger/easier students. Ideally there would be charter schools that cater to higher needs students to help offset that. I have no idea if that is the case.

Exactly. Unless you're in an area with an aged-out population, there are no guarantees of admission to a school. But that's just the nature of demographics and isn't entirely the fault of the provincial government.

Not sure if there are charter schools that cater to higher-needs students, but there are definitely schools that accept a broader range of "coded" students... The schools that accomodate (accept) more codes tend to be more, um, difficult with worse outcomes, as the teachers are left to deal with 14 different types of problems / students, instead of say 5.

[malcolmk14]

Ah, yes. The "charter schools are public schools" crowd out in full force! They're not.

Any school that can turn kids away who don't "fit" their mould are not public schools. They selectively admit students who will succeed and cater to school shopping parents who have the time, resources, ability, etc., to seek them out and set their children up to get in.

Charter schools are (mostly) great, unique, innovative learning environments that have equal or better outcomes to their public counterparts (because they pick their students). Publicly funded, yes, but they aren't public schools in the true sense of the term.

Let me pick my own 20 students and cap my class size and not admit anyone with severe/moderate needs and I'll have tremendous "outcomes" too.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Fixing problems that they created themselves, blame Trudeau, and then watch as your base eats it all up for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Tried and true UCP formula. It's too bad half this province is too god damn stupid or willfully blind to see through it.

Some memes from reddit /u/ndbndbndb

[FlameOn]

New polls suggests Albertans, especially in the cities, are sick of Smith and the UCP. Voters appear to be ready for a change. When confronted with the poll, Smith immediately gaslights and says she's not responsible for creating any of the provinces problems.

The majority of Albertans living in Edmonton and Calgary want a new premier, according to a new Maru Public Opinion poll commissioned by CityNews.

It found only 32 per cent of Edmontonians believe Danielle Smith deserves re-election. In Calgary, that number is 37 per cent, while more than 50 per cent in each city agreed it’s “time for a change.”

The premier seemed unfazed by the numbers Wednesday, while telling CityNews she’s busy working to solve issues facing Albertans.

“When you get elected, you have to make some tough decisions. And what we’re doing is we’re being honest with Albertans about the things we need to do,” Smith said.

“We’re identifying problems and we’re fixing them. It takes a little bit of time to address all of the problems, but look, I didn’t create them. I’m just here to solve them. And so, I’m looking forward to continuing to hear feedback from Albertans.”

Smith polled closer to a 50 per cent split in both cities when people were asked whether or not she is doing a good job.

https://calgary.citynews.ca/2024/09/...able-new-poll/

[#-3]

The CBE offers Arts, GATE, STEM, TLC, Montessori, Indigenous, All Girls, All Boys, and Language Specific Schools, Career & Tech... often rejecting students. In fact I applied one of my kids for one of these programs and was rejected. So the CBE does not grantee acceptance in any program they offer.

I do understand the distinction between charter schools and general programs, even if I reject the premise that you are guaranteed acceptance in a general program, because people are often refused admittance to these schools and sent elsewhere against their wishes.

But you can argue until you are blue in the face, I don't see the distinction between the programs above and charter schools, other than how the school board is appointed. And I do not find civic elections a particularly great way to select a trustee, where we select some random person we know nothing about to sit on the board.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Ah, yes. The "charter schools are public schools" crowd out in full force! They're not.

Any school that can turn kids away who don't "fit" their mould are not public schools. They selectively admit students who will succeed and cater to school shopping parents who have the time, resources, ability, etc., to seek them out and set their children up to get in.

Charter schools are (mostly) great, unique, innovative learning environments that have equal or better outcomes to their public counterparts (because they pick their students). Publicly funded, yes, but they aren't public schools in the true sense of the term.

Let me pick my own 20 students and cap my class size and not admit anyone with severe/moderate needs and I'll have tremendous "outcomes" too.

And this is where the debate should center around charter schools. It rarely does because people don’t understand what a charter school is.

The question around a charter school is really an age old question of whether there are positive outcomes to placing high potential students together and separate from lower potential students. Or whether everyone together lifts all the boats.