Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Life isn't that simple. Although it may be for you NDP types.

Sorry, you can lump meaningless platitudes in with “it’ll never pass!” in the pile of totally useless things that don’t really cut it. Maybe show you’ve actually put some thought into it instead of regurgitating a daily affirmation.

If you support the far right, socially regressive, pro-Trump elements of the party then by all means be brave and stand behind that.

If you don’t, then it’s time to condemn the elements of the party dragging it down, not waste energy trying to convince people the loudest elements won’t get what they want because you’re too scared to stand up.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Despite that, I do not believe the CPC is fascist and the rhetoric surrounding has been over the top (this does not mean we should ignore what they say or don't say).

To be fair you have specifically mocked me for it and continued to sarcastically bring up the fact that people simply identified the use of fascist rhetoric as something we should be conscious of. You say we shouldn’t ignore what they say, but you’ve also gone off on people for bringing up what they say.

So maybe chill out.

[Yamer]

That PP ad that keeps running during the 4 Nations Face-Off makes him look like a bigger weiner than we thought.

"Woke obsessions". This is a guy that doesn't peel the cellophane off his Kraft Singles.

[Fuzz]

Anyone using the word woke seriously is not a serious person.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Yamer

That PP ad that keeps running during the 4 Nations Face-Off makes him look like a bigger weiner than we thought.

"Woke obsessions". This is a guy that doesn't peel the cellophane off his Kraft Singles.

Not even the dumbest part. The dumbest part is that PP seems to have convinced himself that the best marketing for the CPC is not their brand, but his personal brand - his ad is for himself, not the party. It ends with his (terribly designed) personal logo, not the CPC logo. It features him walking up a hill in a henley and jeans as if that's going to make him relatable.

How someone like this can be unaware that he is personally highly unappealing to everyone - more and more the more you get to know him - speaks really poorly for his judgment as eventual PM.

That ad also has literally every possible platform issue crammed into it. It's not complicated, dummies: just say the part about how things are getting harder for people, everything costs more and no one can afford a home, especially first time home buyers. Then say you'll fix it by doing X.

That's it. That's the whole ad.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Anyone using the word woke seriously is not a serious person.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by blender

I'd be very leery of anyone campaigning on a balanced budget right now. It will be impossible in the uncertainty of the next 4 years (at least) without cutting social spending in a Trumpian way.

Also doesn't address how we likely need to spend an additional ~$30 billion annually on defense to meet our 2% of GDP NATO commitment, which won't be optional in a world where the US is aggressor against Canada.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Sorry, you can lump meaningless platitudes in with “it’ll never pass!” in the pile of totally useless things that don’t really cut it. Maybe show you’ve actually put some thought into it instead of regurgitating a daily affirmation.

If you support the far right, socially regressive, pro-Trump elements of the party then by all means be brave and stand behind that.

If you don’t, then it’s time to condemn the elements of the party dragging it down, not waste energy trying to convince people the loudest elements won’t get what they want because you’re too scared to stand up.

Trump basically just proved the it will never pass stuff absolutely wrong. I know a lot of Trump voters because I work in Ag and they were saying the same stuff. He won’t actually go and do crazy stuff and will mostly focus on the economy etc.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Canada isn't the USA though. The reason people are saying "it'll never pass" - or more accurately, it'll never be a government priority - is because there is literally years of precedent under Harper of that being the case vis a vis gay rights, when there was even less solidified public support for those rights.

Also, the "defend trans rights" line of attack might be really effective on Calgarypuck where we're largely left-leaning dudes under the age of 45, but it's a really bad way for pro-LPC and pro-NDP people to actually win anything.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Canada isn't the USA though. The reason people are saying "it'll never pass" - or more accurately, it'll never be a government priority - is because there is literally years of precedent under Harper of that being the case vis a vis gay rights, when there was even less solidified public support for those rights.

Also, the "defend trans rights" line of attack might be really effective on Calgarypuck where we're largely left-leaning dudes under the age of 45, but it's a really bad way for pro-LPC and pro-NDP people to actually win anything.

Who knows these days. I didn’t think Roe vs Wade would ever fall in the US and complacency feels dangerous these days. Socially regressive movements are very active at the grassroots levels and that filters upwards. As long as the PCs keep kowtowing to the far right than there isn’t much comfort in the it’ll never pass thinking.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Some commentary on Carney's operational budget balancing:

I really don't mind that framing, really it isn't anything extraordinary it's just saying that ordinary day to day spending will in balance and any deficits will be for economic growth based purposes.

Having said that I'm skeptical it will happen because life comes at you fast and events will inevitably overtake plans (plus it's kind of like the credit card I had in university... "I'll only use it for emergencies... *three months later after staggering back to my apartment from The Den*... pizza at 2:00AM is an emergency right?"). It's to easy to simply call X or Y policy cost a "growth" expense regardless of whether it actually is and put it on that side of the ledger. Kudos to him if he can do it thou.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Who knows these days. I didn’t think Roe vs Wade would ever fall in the US and complacency feels dangerous these days. Socially regressive movements are very active at the grassroots levels and that filters upwards. As long as the PCs keep kowtowing to the far right than there isn’t much comfort in the it’ll never pass thinking.

I definitely get that. I also totally underestimated the amount of actual, honest to goodness right wing extremists (i.e., actual neonazis and klan members) in the USA so the instinct to err on the safe side this time and assume there is a similar infestation up here is compelling. I just think Trump and PP are very different people, and I don't see PP as a clone of him, or really anything more than a career politician attempting to benefit politically from whatever trend is available to him to get into the office he's seeking. And once there (if he does win, as seemed all but certain until a month ago) I expect him to continue to behave in that manner to hold on to that office as long as he can, and only push those boundaries that are push-able without risking losing power.

Most politicians are ultimately not very brave in what they're willing to take on, their guiding star is to avoid making people angry at them while telling the people who are angry that they should be angry at the other guys.

[Tyler]

Raising a Canadian flag in the middle of a field is arguably the least imaginative, political pandering ad I've seen in a long time. Props to PP

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Most politicians are ultimately not very brave in what they're willing to take on, their guiding star is to avoid making people angry at them while telling the people who are angry that they should be angry at the other guys.

Which explains why this country's economy has stagnated.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

A better statement is there is no economic driver for east west over north/south shipping that the market will capture.

With oil for example the benefit of having access to Brent and other international pricing helps out every Canadian barrel sold. It does not help the pipeline company building the pipe.

Same with all east west shipping. It doesn’t make sense. The Crow rate was needed to subsidize east west grain shipping.

When you make these posts you need to be much for honest what you are advocating for

Massive government subsidies of private business to change the economics of east west vs north south shipping. You are advocating for an NEP like program.

It is correct that the only way that TMX gets built is the government forcing it through.

But it is also incorrect to assume that our only option is to go East West, or that the only way we can build export capabilities is for the Feds to force it through at a ridiculous cost. As an example the Feds & Manitoba are continually investing money into the Churchill port, and much of the damaged rail line has been repaired, which constant upgrades being made at the port. We are already shipping resources to the port and abroad and continual work should help that number grow. However it likely doesn't happen without ice breakers and government involvement to push it forward. Which every country does BTW, and it certainly doesn't look like the NEP.

The lie that is being told is that we can't actually increase our world wide export capabilities to countries other than the US, when in reality we just haven't been serious about it. Its also clear that people like Cliff have been duped by decades of US disinformation campaigns that have convinced the Canadian public that we should be completely dependent on the US to export our oil, gas, minerals, etc. Well duh, we know that isn't actually true, but I also used to think Cliff had more common sense about those things and turns out I was wrong, so it doesn't even matter what is true and what isn't anymore.

[Torture]

The lie that is being told is that we can't actually increase our world wide export capabilities to countries other than the US, when in reality we just haven't been serious about it. Its also clear that people like Cliff have been duped by decades of US disinformation campaigns that have convinced the Canadian public that we should be completely dependent on the US to export our oil, gas, minerals, etc. Well duh, we know that isn't actually true, but I also used to think Cliff had more common sense about those things and turns out I was wrong, so it doesn't even matter what is true and what isn't anymore.

We rely on the U.S. for our exports because that’s what the market dictates. If we want to reduce that reliance, it will require state incentives in the form of subsidies and infrastructure. So more government.

Sure seems like you and Cliff agree to me. You're saying 'we haven't been serious about it', he's saying 'it will require state incentives'. Isn't that the same thing?

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Some commentary on Carney's operational budget balancing:


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...n-the-details/

Here's a list of PP's achievements over his 25 years in parliament....
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Well there has to be at least one right?

[indes]

Originally Posted by aaronck

Here's a list of PP's achievements over his 25 years in parliament....
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- Not Trudeau!

Well there has to be at least one right?

What else do you need?!

[puffnstuff]

Liberal leader candidates fundraising interim returns as of Feb 5


Carney: $1.913M from 11,260 donors
Gould: $236k from 1,375 donors
Freeland: $227 from 332 donors
Baylis: $227k from 188 donors
Dhalla: $145k from 107 donors

[Ped]

Being "woke" is just treating everyone with respect, no matter what their circumstances or how they are. As someone with a large church going family, and who had this very discussion with an elder in my church two months ago:


Why aren't you out protesting adulterers? Fornicators? Frauds? People who are rude to their neighbours? People who get divorced? There are ten commandments and yet the church and the far right only seem to be interested in protesting a few select "sins"


Jesus may have thrown the moneylenders out of the temple but he didn't go up and down the streets of Jerusalem or Bethlehem and start throwing sinners out of their homes, or knocking on their doors and telling them they're going to hell.