Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Azure]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

For what it is worth, Carney said he will balance operational spending in three years.

Which equals drastic program cuts.

Fuzz? Where you at? Do you support this?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which equals drastic program cuts.

Fuzz? Where you at? Do you support this?

Do I support you doing less posting and more thinking? Sure!



I think I'll trust an economist to reason out how that works over Azure rage, but I'll give you a hint. There are more than one way to balance a budget than cutting services. I know, I know, you say "but Conservatives have told me for decades this is the only thing that can be done! Taxes must be cut! Spending is out of control!" Well, Azure, my genius, welcome to the wider world, where there is more than one path. Be brave, step boldly. Explore.

[Number 39]

Living in the GTA its pretty clear from the people I know that Carney is the preferred option here. Small sample size I know.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Just stripping trans people of their rights, humanity, and dignity. Nbd for fellas like us, right?



.

You obviously haven't checked PPs background. Also, there is no hope in hell of that passing in Canada. We are not the US run by a person like Trump.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well, everyone can criticize Trump for his actions all we want, but its not like we have any control over what Trump does, and you gotta be pretty bloody dumb to not see that Canada has been sleep walking into this issue for decades.

No matter which way we want to cut it, or who is in charge (Biden kept original Trump tariffs as well, didn't he even increase them?), Canada being so dependent on the US and having literally no plan in place to actually export our natural resources to the rest of the world is nobody's fault but our own.

Even the Buy Canada stuff, why haven't we been doing that all along? Why don't we have federal legislation that requires food packaging to have proper labels?

Then you have the inter provincial trade issues which were seriously discussed since 2019, and nothing really done about it.

Our inability to export oil & gas to the rest of the world.

TMX expansion was so ridiculously over budget and yet despite that its quite evident its likely still economically a good deal for the government in terms of ROI. And yet despite that we have people saying there is no business case for pipelines.

Anything going east, Quebec is already saying if it doesn't benefit them, they don't want it. What about benefiting the entire country?

We also know the US government has been using disinformation to make sure Canada doesn't actually export our oil anywhere else other than the US.

On and on we go.

Canada is a natural resource country. By all means we should be the richest country in in the world. But somehow we love getting in the way of ourselves when it comes actually accomplishing anything.

But hey, its the CPC party. They haven't been in charge for 9 years, but its THEIR FAULT.

I don’t disagree with you, but objectively the CPC didn’t address these issues when they were in power either. In fact, the Liberals putting up the cash for TMX was a far more drastic step than any lip service the CPC provided.

And today, I’d rather a government that plans on taking a stance for Canada and our interests as opposed to Maple MAGA who only want to kowtow and bend the knee. Should some of this have happened years ago? Undoubtedly. But let’s also recognize that no one was saying anything about these issues with any sense of urgency.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

You obviously haven't checked PPs background. Also, there is no hope in hell of that passing in Canada. We are not the US run by a person like Trump.

Obvious you haven’t listened to what PP has actually said.

Conservatives downplaying the most far right, ideological elements of their party with “oh that’ll never pass anyway!” is no longer excusable. Time to grow a backbone and actually denounce this stuff. You’ve enabled it for too long, and polls are showing that Canadians are no longer interested in watching Conservatives try to play both sides.

You’re with the socially regressive, ideological, pro-Trump elements of the party or you’re against them. Period. “It’ll never pass” is cowardice and no longer enough.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

You obviously haven't checked PPs background. Also, there is no hope in hell of that passing in Canada. We are not the US run by a person like Trump.

Well that makes the creepy obsession with Trudeau from the Shantytown folks pretty weird then, doesn't it?

Do you really think our guardrails are any stronger than the US? Or are our guardrails very similar to the UK...who had no problem driving their bus off a cliff by embracing cOmMoN sEnSe conservatism.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That’s what moderate Canadian conservatives want. The populist far fight want to:

* Remove the ability of science experts to shape public policy.

* Unleash a campaign of revenge against the people responsible for covid measures.

* Sell out the Ukraine to Russia, because “NATO expansion was an act of aggression.”

* Pull out of European alliances.

* Cut foreign aid.

* Stop accepting refugees.

* Remove the independence of the Bank of Canada.

* Promote crypto to resist the sinister machinations of ‘global finance’ (aka “Jews”).

* Indulge every whack-job conspiracy theory from pedophile rings, to UFOs, to the moon landings.

* Chalk up global warming to a Chinese conspiracy and cease all efforts to reduce carbon emissions.

* Abolish any and all recognition of transgendered identities.

* Kowtow to the U.S. on every foreign policy dispute, because Canada is socialist and broken.

* Shut down the CBC and suppress any other mainstream media that won’t hew to populist narratives.

Maple MAGA is real. We all know these people on social media and real life. They’re quite open about their agenda.

I'm just quoting this so I can find this in the future.

Thanks for the really good post

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

You obviously haven't checked PPs background. Also, there is no hope in hell of that passing in Canada. We are not the US run by a person like Trump.

It's happening in Alberta as we speak.

Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has said the fall sitting of the legislature would bring new rules, including parental notifications and/or consent for youth changing their names or pronouns at school, as well as restricting access to hormone treatment and surgery for gender-affirming healthcare.

The province would also clamp down on transgender female athletes competing in women’s and girls’ sports.

The letter says the proposed policies would be unconstitutional and infringe on the rights and freedoms enshrined in four different sections of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms: freedom of expression in section 2(b), the right to life, liberty and security of the person in section 7, the right to not be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment in section 12, and equality rights in section 15.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10296987/...legal-experts/

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Azure

No matter which way we want to cut it, or who is in charge (Biden kept original Trump tariffs as well, didn't he even increase them?), Canada being so dependent on the US and having literally no plan in place to actually export our natural resources to the rest of the world is nobody's fault but our own.

We rely on the U.S. for our exports because that’s what the market dictates. If we want to reduce that reliance, it will require state incentives in the form of subsidies and infrastructure. So more government.

Originally Posted by Azure

Then you have the inter provincial trade issues which were seriously discussed since 2019, and nothing really done about it.

Canada is a very loose federation. Provinces have lots of autonomy, and that’s traditionally been the way Conservative parties have liked it.

If we want to break down barriers, it will mean a fight between Ottawa and the provinces. The CPC under Poilievre could take up the cause of federal authority. But if they do, it will be a 180 from the way the Conservatives have operated in the past.

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

You obviously haven't checked PPs background. Also, there is no hope in hell of that passing in Canada. We are not the US run by a person like Trump.

Check his background? Hmmm like for a security clearance?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’ve never been a CPC supporter. I’m a centrist dad who hadn’t completely discounted voting for them in the next election, provided they weren’t in thrall to the far right element of the party. But that’s no longer in question, is it?

Trump’s second administration is worse than I had imagined it could possibly be. He’s not only doing all the crazy #### he threatened to do, he’s coming up with new crazy #### every day. And the checks and balances in the system have failed to restrain him. America’s liberal institutions and civic norms are smouldering rubble.

And have Canadian conservatives spoken out and denounced Trump’s destruction? Nope. Not only are his Canadian MAGA fans cheering him on, but moderate conservatives can’t bring themselves to criticize him for fear of dividing the right.

I like to follow media across the mainstream to get a range of views. Fo the last couple years my non-insane Canadian conservative source has been the Hub Dialogues podcast. They’ve now dedicated two entire 40 minute podcasts to the changing political landscape in Canada, and not once acknowledged that the CPC’s association with MAGA and Trumpism is contributing to the tightening of polls. It’s all Trudeau and Carney and Canadian nationalism. Since I doubt these guys are idiots, they’re avoiding the elephant in the room because they simply can’t bring themselves to call out the populist far right. Just like Poilievre can’t. They need them. And clearly they won’t stand up to them.

So I guess I have course-corrected: from ‘meh, we’ll see’ to ‘they must be stopped.’

You nailed it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don’t disagree with you, but objectively the CPC didn’t address these issues when they were in power either. In fact, the Liberals putting up the cash for TMX was a far more drastic step than any lip service the CPC provided.

And today, I’d rather a government that plans on taking a stance for Canada and our interests as opposed to Maple MAGA who only want to kowtow and bend the knee. Should some of this have happened years ago? Undoubtedly. But let’s also recognize that no one was saying anything about these issues with any sense of urgency.

Its incredible how all of a sudden the Liberals are being seen as taking a stance for Canada, but for 9 years they did the opposite.

And despite that you don't see as what they're doing now as just taking advantage of the political opportunity? Its like Doug Ford. His entire schtick the past month has just been to get re-elected. He doesn't actually give a #### about half the stuff he's making a big deal about. Once he's elected it'll be back to enriching himself and his buddies, and none of the Canada First, or even more ridiculous 'Can Am Fortress' stupidity will ever get implemented.

But Canadians are really honestly getting what we deserve, because we have this unique ability of not holding politicians accountable even though its quite obvious they should get the boot.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We rely on the U.S. for our exports because that’s what the market dictates. If we want to reduce that reliance, it will require state incentives in the form of subsidies and infrastructure. So more government.

Canada is a very loose federation. Provinces have lots of autonomy, and that’s traditionally been the way Conservative parties have liked it.

If we want to break down barriers, it will mean a fight between Ottawa and the provinces. The CPC under Poilievre could take up the cause of federal authority. But if they do, it will be a 180 from the way the Conservatives have operated in the past.

This is the greatest lie being told today.

Just with oil Canada has been getting shafted for years, decades even. TMX expansion, even with the ridiculous price tag, was moving the GDP of Canada north by .25%, which is kind of a big deal for the Canadian economy.

The numbers have probably changed slightly, but rough estimates are that TMX expansion is sending roughly 175,000 bbd to Asia, with the number expected to continually rise, especially if tariffs are imposed.

That is roughly $305 million USD per month. Pretty significant for something where 'there is no market.'

What really happened is the US using disinformation and political opportunity to make sure Canada never made an effort to export our oil anywhere else other than the US. Looks like the disinformation worked on you as well.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'd actually argue that Canadians have the unique ability to say "We need a change of government, but not to something worse"

If the CPC ran a decent leadership candidate in any of the last two elections they'd have had a majority government.

CPC is so worried about losing the 2% of the population that'd vote PPC, that they sacrifice the 15-20% that will hold their nose and over Liberal even though they think it's time for a change.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

This is the greatest lie being told today.

Just with oil Canada has been getting shafted for years, decades even. TMX expansion, even with the ridiculous price tag, was moving the GDP of Canada north by .25%, which is kind of a big deal for the Canadian economy.

The numbers have probably changed slightly, but rough estimates are that TMX expansion is sending roughly 175,000 bbd to Asia, with the number expected to continually rise, especially if tariffs are imposed.

That is roughly $305 million USD per month. Pretty significant for something where 'there is no market.'

What really happened is the US using disinformation and political opportunity to make sure Canada never made an effort to export our oil anywhere else other than the US. Looks like the disinformation worked on you as well.

A better statement is there is no economic driver for east west over north/south shipping that the market will capture.

With oil for example the benefit of having access to Brent and other international pricing helps out every Canadian barrel sold. It does not help the pipeline company building the pipe.

Same with all east west shipping. It doesn’t make sense. The Crow rate was needed to subsidize east west grain shipping.

When you make these posts you need to be much for honest what you are advocating for

Massive government subsidies of private business to change the economics of east west vs north south shipping. You are advocating for an NEP like program.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Azure

Which equals drastic program cuts.

Fuzz? Where you at? Do you support this?

Some commentary on Carney's operational budget balancing:

He was talking about splitting the budget in two and balancing one part of it. That’s not the same as eliminating the deficit. But it does tell us a lot about how Mr. Carney would approach the country’s finances if he becomes prime minister.

For the record, The Wall Street Journal didn’t misquote him. Mr. Carney did indeed tell a crowd at a leadership campaign rally in Kelowna, B.C., last week that “my government will balance the spending budget within the first three years.”

That was a misleading way for Mr. Carney to refer to what he has in mind: balancing the government’s operating budget.

Perhaps Mr. Carney didn’t want to get into the weeds of government-accounting geekery to explain it. But let’s indulge in a bit of geekery here, because it gives some clues about the former central bank governor’s ideas on running the country.

If anything, Mr. Carney is indicating he has no intention of balancing the budget. In fact, he promised that Kelowna audience that if he were prime minister, he’d pour money into energy infrastructure, building up a trade corridor, and housing. “Build, baby, build,” he said.

But he regularly complains that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government spends too much and invests too little. He’s been hinting at a different approach to spending control.

Mr. Carney’s plan, campaign aides confirmed, is to split the government’s budget in two.

The operating budget would cover what the government consumes day to day and year to year, including supplies, salaries, cash transfers to provinces, and benefits such as Old Age Security or employment insurance. The capital budget would include expenditures on assets such as military fighter jets and ships, or infrastructure such as bridges and ports.

That, by itself, is merely a change in the way the figures are presented. It won’t make the country less indebted. And it offers an obvious advantage to a politician promising discipline: “You show a smaller deficit,” said Randall Bartlett, deputy chief economist at Desjardins Group.

But Mr. Bartlett thinks it’s a good idea. So does Kevin Page, the former parliamentary budget officer and now president of the Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy.

Why? Because they believe it can encourage fiscal discipline even when the government borrows.

In Mr. Page’s view, it would allow easier scrutiny of how well the government is controlling operating spending, including the size of the public service and politically popular benefits. It could also underline the value of capital spending on long-term assets because government ledgers would record their worth.

That distinction is important at a time when Canada needs to embark on major capital-spending plans to beef up the military and infrastructure. When tough times hit, governments are tempted to cut back on longer-term expenditures.

Right now, Mr. Carney’s proposal to balance the operating budget in three years doesn’t sound ambitious. Mr. Page estimates that current fiscal plans would already bring it close.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...n-the-details/

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You’re with the socially regressive, ideological, pro-Trump elements of the party or you’re against them. Period. “It’ll never pass” is cowardice and no longer enough.

Life isn't that simple. Although it may be for you NDP types.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Life isn't that simple. Although it may be for you NDP types.

Oh no we’ve got a badass on our hands here

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Nah. We just think you're a deeply unserious and uneducated dweeb who says dumb #### like "Trudeau invented the term dogwhistle."

My my, looks like I struck quite the cord with you last night with such a childish response.
Funny how some of the furthest left slanted posters on this forum (almost like you could call them the usuals) thanked your post.

All because I questioned your slant on CliffFletcher's position to claim he was a CPC supporter?

Just stripping trans people of their rights, humanity, and dignity. Nbd for fellas like us, right?

They have more policies I agree to than I disagree to. I've never liked the social branch of conservatism and have always seen it as a giant anchor, but I've always voted based on the overall picture with very rarely a single issue swaying my vote. If the Liberals truly are moving back to the right fiscally under Carney, they become a choice again for moderates who don't like the CPC being socially regressive (though by your past talk its quite apparent you think he and Liberals are also part of the problem). The federal NDP is not a serious party and the polls agree with me (Carney criticized the far left in his leadership bid speech).

Weird. A few months ago you were accusing the "extreme left" of being over the top for basically saying the exact same ####.

I've stated before Trump got elected that Project 2025 was a very real thing and would happen if elected. I've long criticized the CPC for several affiliations that is coming to bite them right now that they need to cut and voted against Smith / UCP. Their lack of addressing the white elephant in the room does make me question if I will vote for them, as a non partisan, with priorities changing fast. Despite that, I do not believe the CPC is fascist and the rhetoric surrounding has been over the top (this does not mean we should ignore what they say or don't say).

You however are over the top against anything even remotely right of your own views. You have a very long history of claiming conservatives have an agenda well before MAGA ever became a thing. You think Liberals are center right. You think Democrats / Biden are corporatist neoliberals lap dogs. You think Singh is somehow centrist. Everyone is right of you when you are so far on the left end.

Here's a few examples of many (first one from 2015).

Originally Posted by rubecube

I would say Canada as we know it, especially when it comes to open and transparent democracy, has definitely changed. No one is saying if he gets elected the agenda is coming out. The agenda's been out for four years and it's absolutely atrocious from social, environmental, and democratic perspectives. Do people seriously just ignore the stuff that's been going on? Or because they don't see it as directly affecting them, they just don't care?

We're not much better as a country. Our next PM is either a fascist or one who cosplays as one.

Originally Posted by rubecube

We're also seeing the "enlightened centrists/liberals" of the world align with neofascists to defeat leftist ideas, which is also pretty consistent with the history of the 20th century.

The choice is a nativist fascist vs. corporatist neoliberal lap dog, and, in this instance, yes I agree the latter is a better choice.

Originally Posted by rubecube

So Singh is the new leader of the NDP. I'm a little disappointed as he's a bit too centrist for me but we'll see what happens.

I'm surprised we somehow survived the 2011-2015 Dark Ages to be able to reflect on it

You have a history of deep hatred for centrists / liberals / conservatives (even those that are clearly left by any normal metric but you personally deem centrist) and anyone right of them. So yes you are overcritical and way over the top politically to a cartoonish level.

Your childish retort above to what was a simple questioning of your claim is proof of that.