Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I may have missed something, but I don’t think that the accepted statements of facts included the specifics of everything that happened. It was only some very general facts around the event, not all the specifics.

I’ve come up empty on where I thought I read that, so I’m sorry if I misspoke.

[BoLevi]

I'm done with all of this. I hope they lock these guys up for a long time.

[Goriders]

I have two daughters. If anyone did something like that to one of them I don’t know how I would have handled it. I definitely would want some sort of vengeance or retribution.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I have two daughters. If anyone did something like that to one of them I don’t know how I would have handled it. I definitely would want some sort of vengeance or retribution.

The flip side of that is I would be mortified if my son ever did something like that, and I would be very disappointed if he knew about it and didn’t try to stop it.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We have lots of examples of those values being swept aside when boys and young men are trying to impress each other. There’s something about a bunch of young males bonded together - whether in a team, a gang, or an army - that acts as a powerful catalyst for brutal behaviour. Some resist it. Many don’t.

So yes, we should instil respect for women in our sons. But we also need to look at certain institutions and how they foster our ugliest instincts. Organized hockey is one of them. I have a hard time believing a similar scene would have played out with a badminton or chess team.

This speaks to me so much. I was maybe a 'late bloomer' or something, but I was NOT ready for sexual interactions with girls when I was 16-18. Of course, I was a horny ass teenager like everyone, but I just knew I wasn't ready to go through with any of that.

Hanging out with mostly hockey players though, the pressure to try to bang any girl that said 'hi' was insane. If you didn't you were immediately labeled gay or a priest and then outcast. Looking back, I am proud of myself for resisting, but ashamed I didn't do more to speak up for others who probably felt like me but didn't have the confidence to resist.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Trail is continuing this morning:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ight-9.6749607

I get the role of the defense but this is a hard read. They are suggesting many things:
- That she wasn't as drunk as she claims
- That she could have got away from McLeod at any time
- That she was more attracted to him because she knew he was an elite player and potentially wealthy
- And perhaps something that will be a key point for their case. That at some point she said: “‘Get some of those guys back here. I want to have a wild night.’”

Really hard to read.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trail is continuing this morning:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ight-9.6749607

I get the role of the defense but this is a hard read. They are suggesting many things:
- That she wasn't as drunk as she claims
- That she could have got away from McLeod at any time
- That she was more attracted to him because she knew he was an elite player and potentially wealthy
- And perhaps something that will be a key point for their case. That at some point she said: “‘Get some of those guys back here. I want to have a wild night.’”

Really hard to read.

For certainty, the defendants lawyer suggested this, and the victim denied it.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trail is continuing this morning:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ight-9.6749607

I get the role of the defense but this is a hard read. They are suggesting many things:
- That she wasn't as drunk as she claims
- That she could have got away from McLeod at any time
- That she was more attracted to him because she knew he was an elite player and potentially wealthy
- And perhaps something that will be a key point for their case. That at some point she said: “‘Get some of those guys back here. I want to have a wild night.’”



Really hard to read.

Exactly. He is doing his job but you still want to slap him upside the head and tell him to stop being a prick.

[FlamesAddiction]

It's all about planting the seeds for reasonable doubt. The defense knows they are never going to make these guys look like choir boys. They are going to the notion that this is based on embarrassment and regret after the fact rather than lack of consent at the time, which is probably the only possible path for them and pretty predictable. You can tell that they are playing up on her using alcohol purposely to become less inhibited and to do things she wouldn't otherwise, but also implying that she wasn't completely drunk and being taken advantage of.

[taxbuster]

A good piece of perspective here from another CBC reporter on speaking with a criminal lawyer ("Grant" in the quote below):


Grant says the defence has an uphill battle having to explain how it is that a group of men showed up in the hotel room, particularly if it was unsolicited and unwanted.
The optics of how intimidating that would be for a lone woman also make it difficult, she says.

“So there's gonna have to be an explanation for that, and there's going to have to be an explanation that doesn't suggest that she was not consenting to this. … I think that the counter -narrative has to be, ‘Well, she wanted the other people to be there and they're clearly trying to build on that.’”



And agreed with the others...the story is a very hard one to read. I hope the female (especially) reporters covering it are getting good support for their well-being and mental health.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trail is continuing this morning:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ight-9.6749607

I get the role of the defense but this is a hard read. They are suggesting many things:
- That she wasn't as drunk as she claims
- That she could have got away from McLeod at any time
- That she was more attracted to him because she knew he was an elite player and potentially wealthy
- And perhaps something that will be a key point for their case. That at some point she said: “‘Get some of those guys back here. I want to have a wild night.’”

Really hard to read.

I mean as you said- not much else he can say as a defense attorney.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Buff

Exactly. He is doing his job but you still want to slap him upside the head and tell him to stop being a prick.

Yeah. I'll abstain on opinion on this one because, unfortunately that guy has a rough job to do but he's gotta do it. I do not envy him.

Bashing the hell out of her is pretty much the only card he has to play.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trail is continuing this morning:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...ight-9.6749607

I get the role of the defense but this is a hard read. They are suggesting many things:
- That she wasn't as drunk as she claims
- That she could have got away from McLeod at any time
- That she was more attracted to him because she knew he was an elite player and potentially wealthy
- And perhaps something that will be a key point for their case. That at some point she said: “‘Get some of those guys back here. I want to have a wild night.’”

Really hard to read.

Did she actually make that last comment? That’s the first time I had heard that one in all of the stories/reports.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Did she actually make that last comment? That’s the first time I had heard that one in all of the stories/reports.

Thing is, if one of the defendants is going to say she did, they have to put it to her first.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Did she actually make that last comment? That’s the first time I had heard that one in all of the stories/reports.

No one has testified to it.

At this point it is purely a suggestion by the defence, as already noted. EM testified in response having no memory of saying anything of the sort, and not believing she would ever say something like that.

[TheIronMaiden]

So what's the Deal EM has to put up with another day or so of questions before they put any of the defended up for testimony?

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

So what's the Deal EM has to put up with another day or so of questions before they put any of the defended up for testimony?

Not sure what the order is but I believe she is going to have to face 5 lawyers. She's on #1 as of last I checked which was Michael McLeod's lawyer.

[Strange Brew]

This trial is supposed to last for weeks. I imagine the prosecution will have several corroborating witnesses after her.

[InternationalVillager]

As of now, it seems that the lawyer for Michael McLeod has suggested that EM wanted to participate in a gangbang and provoked the other guys on. I'm sure he has to have corroborative evidence for that? Otherwise it's not really evidence? Someone let me know how that works.

Link:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...=1746559933556

"Different views on what was ‘crazy’"

[blankall]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

As of now, it seems that the lawyer for Michael McLeod has suggested that EM wanted to participate in a gangbang and provoked the other guys on. I'm sure he has to have corroborative evidence for that? Otherwise it's not really evidence? Someone let me know how that works.

Link:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...=1746559933556

"Different views on what was ‘crazy’"

If he wants to establish that fact, he definitely needs evidence. If that's what the players are all saying, that is evidence, as the accused are witnesses too (assuming they are called to the stand, they don't have to testify). Evidence from any witness will always be scrutinized for its credibility. It's also not a numbers game, so the fact that there are more accused than victims isn't conclusive.

The lawyers will be looking for objective evidence to corroborate their sides' story. For example, physical evidence, cameras, texts, etc....Often, you can't really tell how that's all going to come out until the evidence is heard.