[SCF] Florida Panthers (EC-WC2) vs Vegas Golden Knights (WC-1)

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It's no different than being happy the Oilers lost and making fun of Golden Boy and Pissy. But that's ok because it's the Oilers.

Well, it is different. The Oilers and their players are regional rivals, and have been for 43 years. Tkachuk left the team for a more preferential location and employment situation.

Posting AI generated images of him crying after being a soldier for the Flames and having his sternum caved in is all kinds of jilted lover energy.

It is lame.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Well, it is different.

Nope, we all have players we dislike and are glad when they lose. He's one of them for some people on here now. If he's not for you then that's your choice.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Nope, we all have players we dislike and are glad when they lose. He's one of them for some people on here now. If he's not for you then that's your choice.

Of course it is, but it is entirely different circumstances.

Hating McDavid and Draisatl is a duty. Hating Tkachuk is a choice.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Of course it is, but it is entirely different circumstances.

Hating McDavid and Draisatl is a duty. Hating Tkachuk is a choice.

I would probably dislike both even if they weren't Oilers like I do other players around the league. Them being Oilers just makes it easier.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I would probably dislike both even if they weren't Oilers like I do other players around the league. Them being Oilers just makes it easier.

McDavid is vanilla ice cream. I could appreciate his talent and never really have another thought about him if he weren't playing in Edmonton.

Leon Draisatl is naturally hateable.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Friedman is the worst for awkward and inappropriate interview things. As if Friedman's weird whispery close talking isn't bad enough at the best of times, when he leaned in to Kelly McCrimmon and in a a very low and ominous voice said; "Brad's name is on the Cup, now your name is on the Cup", that was kind of annoying. Here is Kelly McCrimmon enjoying something that made him really happy in that moment, and Elliot had remind him that his brother died in a fiery plane crash, and almost made the man cry on the spot.

Do we really have to do things like that just to make for interesting television?

Friedman is an idiot and getting more idiotic as times pass.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Yamer

McDavid is vanilla ice cream. I could appreciate his talent and never really have another thought about him if he weren't playing in Edmonton.

The constant whining to the refs and diving is a big turnoff for me. And I know alot of people who cheer for other teams who don't like him for those reasons.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Friedman is the worst for awkward and inappropriate interview things. As if Friedman's weird whispery close talking isn't bad enough at the best of times, when he leaned in to Kelly McCrimmon and in a a very low and ominous voice said; "Brad's name is on the Cup, now your name is on the Cup", that was kind of annoying. Here is Kelly McCrimmon enjoying something that made him really happy in that moment, and Elliot had remind him that his brother died in a fiery plane crash, and almost made the man cry on the spot.

Do we really have to do things like that just to make for interesting television?

He asked Kelly that morning if he can bring up Brad in the post game.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Yamer

McDavid is vanilla ice cream. I could appreciate his talent and never really have another thought about him if he weren't playing in Edmonton.

Leon Draisatl is naturally hateable.

I'm probably a lunatic, but I'd actually take Draisaitl on a team before I'd take McDavid.

Yes he's a jackass to the media, but that can be taught out of him. Same with his penchant for giving up on plays or just refusing to backcheck. It would take a coach like Darryl Sutter (or, in reality, it would literally require Darryl Sutter) to accomplish it, but there is far more to like about Leon's game than McDavid's. Then again, McDavid would be a much better player with Sutter coaching him too.

Maybe the real point I'm trying to make is that Darryl Sutter should be a specialized training consultant. Give him a Draisaitl for a summer and see what you get back in training camp.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm probably a lunatic, but I'd actually take Draisaitl on a team before I'd take McDavid.

Yes he's a jackass to the media, but that can be taught out of him. Same with his penchant for giving up on plays or just refusing to backcheck. It would take a coach like Darryl Sutter (or, in reality, it would literally require Darryl Sutter) to accomplish it, but there is far more to like about Leon's game than McDavid's. Then again, McDavid would be a much better player with Sutter coaching him too.

Maybe the real point I'm trying to make is that Darryl Sutter should be a specialized training consultant. Give him a Draisaitl for a summer and see what you get back in training camp.

Yeah, I disagree.

I couldnt care less about how he treats the media, the fact is that he's a vulture with an attitude.

McDavid drives offence forward and Draisaitl profits, on his own Draisaitl is effectively useless.

He's a sidekick with attitude. No thanks.

[zamler]

Florida had a rough path to the finals no easy rounds unlike Vegas.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm probably a lunatic, but I'd actually take Draisaitl on a team before I'd take McDavid.

Yes he's a jackass to the media, but that can be taught out of him. Same with his penchant for giving up on plays or just refusing to backcheck. It would take a coach like Darryl Sutter (or, in reality, it would literally require Darryl Sutter) to accomplish it, but there is far more to like about Leon's game than McDavid's. Then again, McDavid would be a much better player with Sutter coaching him too.

Maybe the real point I'm trying to make is that Darryl Sutter should be a specialized training consultant. Give him a Draisaitl for a summer and see what you get back in training camp.

And that would be crazy.

McDavid+Draisaitl: 58.0% xGF (+30)
McDavid w/o Draisaitl: 58.0% xGF (+25)
Draisaitl w/o McDavid: 47.4% xGF (+9)

Draisaitl continues to be a huge beneficiary of playing with McDavid. Together they really are both elite, as Draisaitl's finishing really helps McDavid but really Draisaitl isn't elite away from McDavid.

Originally Posted by zamler

Florida had a rough path to the finals no easy rounds unlike Vegas.

Meh. You deserve a bit of an easier path when you finish 1st instead of 8th.

And even then Dallas and Carolina aren't that different (with all Carolina's injuries), neither were Edmonton and Toronto. Only round that was considerably easier was round 1 - Boston and Winnipeg aren't in the same realm. And honestly the whole "Atlantic division is so tough" narrative seems pretty false now. The 92 point 8 seed beat the other Atlantic teams, only to get stomped by Vegas and the supposedly weak Pacific division.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, I disagree.

I couldnt care less about how he treats the media, the fact is that he's a vulture with an attitude.

McDavid drives offence forward and Draisaitl profits, on his own Draisaitl is effectively useless.

He's a sidekick with attitude. No thanks.

I disagree. I think the whole "who drives who" thing is debatable (they both inflate each other's stats), but in terms of who could impact a game in more ways...

(their names are annoying to type so I'll just use their numbers, and other than size, i'm only using playoff career stats - since I'm much more interested in what they can do for me in the playoffs)

Size
#97: 6'1" 190 lbs
#29: 6'2" 210 lbs

Basic Stats, career (2023 in parenthesis)
#97: 49 GP, 29 G, 46 A, 75 Pts (12 GP, 8 G, 12 A, 20 Pts)
#29: 49 GP, 31 G, 46 A, 77 Pts (12 GP, 13 G, 5 A, 18 Pts)

Faceoffs, career (2023 in parenthesis)
#97: 535 TOT, 46.4% W (151, 48.3%)
#29: 878 TOT, 50.1% W (218, 55.1%)

5v5, career (2023 in parenthesis)
#97: 49 GP, 13 G, 24 A, 37 Pts (12 GP, 2 G, 5 A, 7 Pts)
#29: 49 GP, 16 G, 27 A, 43 Pts (12 GP, 7 G, 2 A, 9 Pts)

5v5 per 60, career (2023 in parenthesis)
#97: 0.91 G/60, 1.67 A/60, 2.58 Pts/60 (0.59 G/60, 1.49 A/60, 2.08 Pts/60)
#29: 1.17 G/60, 1.98 A/60, 3.15 Pts/60 (2.06 G/60, 0.59 A/60, 2.65 Pts/60)

5v5 Primary Points, career (2023 in parenthesis)
#97: 49 GP, 13 G, 16 A1, 29 P-Pts (12 GP, 2 G, 5 A1, 7 P-Pts)
#29: 49 GP, 16 G, 19 A1, 35 P-Pts (12 GP, 7 G, 2 A1, 9 P-Pts) (both players had 0 A2s this year)

Both have comparable total stats, but #29 is bigger and heavier, takes a much higher amount of faceoffs and wins a much higher percentage of them... is moderately more productive 5v5 in both total and primary points, but is substantially more productive 5v5 when you look at it per 60 mins.

In my mind, Draisaitl is who I'd want in the playoffs if I was forced to choose between the two.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And that would be crazy.

McDavid+Draisaitl: 58.0% xGF (+30)
McDavid w/o Draisaitl: 58.0% xGF (+25)
Draisaitl w/o McDavid: 47.4% xGF (+9)

Draisaitl continues to be a huge beneficiary of playing with McDavid. Together they really are both elite, as Draisaitl's finishing really helps McDavid but really Draisaitl isn't elite away from McDavid.

Orrr... since xGF, even at a player level, is impacted by who else is on the ice, two arguments can be made: one is that when they're separated, McDavid is on SC1 with other SC1 linemates, and Draisaitl is on SC2 with less quality linemates (not a lot of depth in EDM)... and two is that (again, when separated) Draisaitl plays in less favourable matchups than McDavid does.

Essentially, what I'm getting at is you can't just use xGF% in a vacuum wihthout also looking at quality of teammate and quality of opposition (at the bare minimum).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by zamler

Florida had a rough path to the finals no easy rounds unlike Vegas.

Because Vegas earned it by being a higher seed

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Because Vegas earned it by being a higher seed

lol... why something happened doesn't change that something happened.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Why are we talking about the oilers in the cup final thread where Vegas beat Florida?

The world ends about 60 mins north of Red Deer.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

The Ron thing is so annoying. How much longer do we have to put up with his rambling about things that are irrelevant, not to mention the Oilers and Conna?



And the SN montage was great as usual but Gordon Lightfoot, really? What does that song have to do with the playoffs? Only in Canada eh, the most insecure country on earth.

Can someone provide a summary of McLean's pointless blathering? Or, is there a link somewhere?

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is (another reason) why the argument that Oiler fans make about "we did better against Vegas than Florida did" and "we lost to the Cup champs two years in a row" is such meaningless drivel.



Every round is a completely new entity. And by the 4th round, teams are really beat up, and sometimes run out of gas. FLA had nothing left for this series - nothing. Not their fault, not a criticism, just what it is. So to try and infer that your team did better against Vegas (and is somehow better, as a result), is as pointless as it is embarrassing.

Yes. Thank you.

I think the recognition about just how much random good fortune goes into winning that God damned elusive trophy has actually greatly improved my enjoyment of the game. Hockey is blissful, spectacular chaos, where any given thing can happen on any given night. The margins for error are so fine, and the parity between teams so razor-thin that at the end of the day it is fair to say that the luckiest team is the one who wins every year.

It just serves to illustrate how astonishingly no good the Oilers are, when even blessed with ridiculous amounts of good fortune they still cannot get out of their own way, and continue to suck.

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[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Tkachuk didn't learn from the past. Bit off more than he could chew laying out Eichel like a freight train. He had to know retribution would be coming, and his body is a bit on the fragile side.

Should've kept his head down and just focused on making things happen around the net.

Must have been mentally agonizing for him to watch from the bench then the press box in games 4 and 5.

Another learning experience for Chucky. Not sure he will see a finals to redeem that any time soon though.. that run was as Cinderella run as they come.

Yes I was reminded exactly of his immediate decline after the hand injury from the fight in the Dallas series.