If so it’ll be three veteran players in three years (Brouwer being the other) that mysteriously develop “locker room problems” after they leave the club, and who were being touted for their “leadership strengths” during their tenure at the club.
Clearly none of us are in the room and can’t know for sure, but my spider-sense calls BS on these reports. For me it’s just a convenient distraction that all teams employ to help “sell” a transaction to the fan base.
Those who see the translation as positive will put weight to these reports, and those who see the transaction as negative will ignore them.
And don’t forget Hamilton (aloof) Ferland (unreachable) and Fox (unsignable). That’s an age old pro sports tradition to let this kind of stuff leak out and Flames do it as much as anyone.
I think Neal’s attitude was exactly as advertised. Guess it’s tougher o swallow when the guy plays so poorly.
He was a good second or third unit penalty killer, but there are plenty of capable roster players - Bennett, Monahan, Dube, and Mangiapane who can pick up where he left off. We still presumably have Backlund, Lindholm, Ryan, and Jankowski so our PK is just fine.
Don’t forget, in the event Frolik is still with the Flames, he could easily play the PK and not be out of place at all. As he is a very good defensive player. In fact I’d place him as the 5th best option for the team for forwards on the PK.
We'll see what happens. If only every other game,someone thinks twice about slashing Johnny or pushing around one of our top guys because they may have to face Lucic on the next line change, it all may be worth it. Neal may have had some grit at one point and could put a puck or two in the net, but nobody slashing away at Gaudreau over the past few seasons would worry one bit about facing Neal over it. Yeah, I get it, the good old days of the enforcer are gone, but every sucessful team still needs that guy that makes the other team think there are real consequences if they choose to take certain liberties with their star players.
Am I the only one who doesn't care at all about what Neal does in Edmonton?
Nothing he does for that terrible team will change how poor a fit he was here. We could -- and did -- spitballi ad nauseum about line combos and possible sources of motivation, but his totally unconvincing performance last year will not be difficult to improve upon. All Lucic has to do is to be a presence out there. Neal was never a presence.
If Lucic can light a fire under this team with huge hits (and remember, he tied his career-high in them last year), then I really couldn't care less about how many tap-ins Neal gets playing with McDavid.
Good take. Neal wasn't going to set the world on fire on this team anyway, so might as well see if he can do better playing for a defensive minded coach like Tippett-he didn't seem to fit in well to Peters' puck possession /transition game here, and fancy stats show that Lucic has a better chance of success on our team.
I think no matter what Neal does, the Oilers are still a ~80 point team through and through, so what does it matter. He'll be playing well above his current caliber because the team is so bad, they have to rely on Connor spoon-feeding the likes of Neal.
Meanwhile Lucic will be a contributing role player in the playoffs for us, patrolling the ice and serving a needed role that he doesn't need to be shoehorned into. I like the idea that anybody wanting to take liberties with Johnny or Tkachuk like many have in recent times, will have to answer to this guy now.
They said on Sportsnet that every time McDavid has been injured, Looch was NOT in the lineup that night. Not sure if that's true....
While true, it's not really relevant to anything. McDavid was only injured once during Lucic's time in Edmonton and that was in the last game. When McDavid had his injury during his rookie year, Lucic was still playing for the Kings.
Those are the only two injuries McDavid has had during his career so far.
Lucic only missed three games in his three seasons with the Oilers. All three were in the last month of last season. While McDavid got injured during the third game Lucic missed, he had two points and played nearly half the game in the other two.
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
Yes. It's Schrodinger's hockey player. You, nor I can predict the future.
You can find all sorts of data, analytics, historical charts and a spreadsheet of what Neal is eating daily for breakfast but you still can't predict whether Neal's performance would be better, the same, or worse than last year. There are too many factors to practically consider.
And now you won't be able to anyways, so it's all moot.
I think you missed my point.
I'm not professing to predict anything, but you can't assign equal chance to improve, stay the same or get worse to a 32 year old. Hockey players peak at 29 and then get worse as an average every year.
So they aren't equal chance out comes, they are heavily skewed to a decline by a huge data base of hockey players.
Neal was so bad last year he should bounce back a bit, but then I guess you could say the same about Lucic. As a curve though, they're both rolling off a hill and downhill for these contracts.
And don’t forget Hamilton (aloof) Ferland (unreachable) and Fox (unsignable). That’s an age old pro sports tradition to let this kind of stuff leak out and Flames do it as much as anyone.
I think Neal’s attitude was exactly as advertised. Guess it’s tougher o swallow when the guy plays so poorly.
His attitude wasn't really tested in previous stops though.
Neal as a guy that can't score and is sliding down and then out of the lineup is a whole new animal compared to his time in Vegas, Nashville and Pittsburgh.
(saying that while fully admitting I have no idea what his attitude is / was)
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Reading through this thread again this morning. A classic. All the emotions. The subsequent trolling and gimmick creation from some users. This has it all.
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Neal/lucic are going to be the flames 3rd/4th line wingers.
Neal and his skillset weren't satisfactory for that role amd he just isn't good enough to play on the flames top6.
Lucic isn't a top 6 player at all either. However, he can hopefully still play on the 3rd/4th line role.
We need to be very careful in grading the trade by comparing neal vs lucic stat lines.
Lucic's success for me looks like some minimal offense, but a guy who ends every shift in a scrum and face washingatch. That kind of play is absolutely effective in wearing down opposition who eventually will shy away when after a few scrums escalate to a challenge to fight.
If lucic cam do this night in and night out, it's exactly what the flames need more of. It's not worth $5-$6M, but it's more value than the same money got you from neal in the bottom 6.
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I think Lucic is a much better fit for our team than Neal was. At least Lucic won't be counted on for scoring and can add something else - Neal was useless if he wasn't scoring, which made him mostly useless.
Both are overpaid, no question about that. One of the big factors to me, that a lot of people aren't mentioning, is the real dollars left to pay out to these two. That's where we come out ahead by a fair margin:
- Neal - $5.75M for 4 years, plus the $750K retained on Lucic = $26M
- Lucic - $16M over 4 years as the Oil already paid him his $3M bonus this year
That's a $10M difference over the 4 years, which has to be a fair chunk of change for the owners when they considered this deal. If you're looking at how much we actually pay out then this definitely more palatable to have Lucic.
That being said I hope Lucic brings the physical element we lack, and that Neal continues to be no good and fit right into the E=NG they've had going on for the last decade or two.
Neal most likely starts the season on the top line. Huge expectations, likely a bump in points.
Lucic likely starts on the third or fourth line. Adds grit, low production expectations, likely no big bump in points.
It just seems like both teams got better, contracts aside
Even if Neal scores more on the top line, to the extent he's just filling the role of Chiasson or Maroon, Edmonton doesn't get better, unless (a) he scores more goals, and this turns into more team goals and/or (b) Chiasson contributes significant production on a lower line.
I do agree 100% it’s still part of the game and that’s why our team isn’t having playoff success. Our roster construction is too early for the game of the future.
Right now you still need your speed/skill players to have some size and strength as well as we saw was greatly exposed by Colorado. Sure the pure goon and 4th line mucker days are gone but adding a 3rd liner who adds toughness doesn’t make us materially any better. Lucic is not going to have any impact on our top line (right now Gaudreau - Monahan- Lindholm) being able to drive play in the playoffs and being strong enough to counteract teams with, fast heavy and skilled top lines.
Games aren’t won in scrums and by having an intimidating face on the bench.
Which is why Hathaway was so valuable. He added grit along with motor, penalty kill, and was able to produce a decent amount for the ice time, position and linemates he was given.
Part of the issue is that keeping Hathaway would have cost $1.5MM per year, while getting Lucic saved $500K per year, for a net difference of $2MM per year. Cap space is very valuable.
This is before taking into account the thought that Lucic on the bottom 6 is better than Neal on the bottom 6.
I still do not like adding Lucic, but understand where the logic is coming from, when looking at all of the variables.
And don’t forget Hamilton (aloof) Ferland (unreachable) and Fox (unsignable). That’s an age old pro sports tradition to let this kind of stuff leak out and Flames do it as much as anyone.
I think Neal’s attitude was exactly as advertised. Guess it’s tougher o swallow when the guy plays so poorly.
What?! Fox clearly was unsignable. How on earth would you use that as an example of the Flames leaking a sell to the fans?
And don’t forget Hamilton (aloof) Ferland (unreachable) and Fox (unsignable). That’s an age old pro sports tradition to let this kind of stuff leak out and Flames do it as much as anyone.
I think Neal’s attitude was exactly as advertised. Guess it’s tougher o swallow when the guy plays so poorly.
Hamilton was obvious to any outside observers. I was banging the drum to trade him after the season ended last year it was clear. Treliving praised everything about Ferland when he was moved and basically said it was going to be tough to re-sign him. The stuff about him being unreachable was a media take. Fox proved to be unsignable when he forced his way off the Hurricanes this summer
This narrative that Neal had a chance of rebounding was a fantasy that some of you indulged in. He was gifted ice time for an antire year that he did nothing to earn! Sorry you don’t get years to prove you can still play in the nhl. If you don’t show a glimmer of nhl ability in an entire calendar year, show zero chemistry on any line you play on you don’t get any more chances. If your play is so bad the coach scratches you in game 5 of the playoffs you ain’t coming back.
I’ve seen this sentiment a lot, “Neal has a better chance of rebounding”. Maybe with the Oilers, but he sure as hell wasnt getting that chance with us. He didn’t deserve that chance, he wasn’t going to get it and there’s no reason to think he would rebound imo. As Treliving said he was not a fit at all.
I often take the optimistic viewpoint. Wanna know my optimism level that Neal might rebound with us? Non-existent. Sorry but all of you who bought into the Neal could rebound with the Flames bought into a fantasy.
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The only thing I am concerned about with this trade is that we have chosen to honour Lucic's NMC...
I really don't like the fact that we have to protect him in the expansion draft, but I suppose we can trade a pick or prospect to seattle for protection of someone more important if it comes down to it.
