The New American Politics thread

[Tinordi]

In some ways, it's a testament that it's taken this long for fascism to really appear on the American political landscape.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Hope they're ready to be called overrated and losers

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

In some ways, it's a testament that it's taken this long for fascism to be recognized in the American political landscape.

FYP

Fascism has been front and center in the United States for decades, but they manage to wrap it in the flag and frame it in ways that people won't acknowledge it.

Ironically, Donald Trump is doing nothing more than flying high cover for the real loons in the Republican party. Trump has no chance of winning. The Republican god makers know it and he knows it too. He's out there being a clown and saying extreme things so the real loons don't have to. His job is to move the needle of the center line further to the right so the real candidates don't have to. It's been happening for years, people are just too thick to recognize it.

[Vulcan]

I think Trump's race baiting is causing more problems that we think. If you don't think he's a racist just think back to the Obama birth certificate fiasco. He's also playing into the hands of ISIS by showing the hatred of Moslems is a part of the States. He's dividing his country and to an extent the world. He isn't just doing this as some publicity stunt, he's a real live sombitch.

[CliffFletcher]

People need to read some history. In the 60s you still had segregation and lynching, black kids being spat on for trying to go to white schools, political assassinations at the highest levels, half the campuses in the U.S. paralyzed with protests, the National Guard shooting and killing student protesters, race riots far bigger than St. Louis in dozens of cities, black panthers arming themselves for revolution, skyrocketing violent crime, and war casualties an order of magnitude larger than Afghanistan and Iraq put together. And remember, the U.S. still had the draft at the time, so these weren't volunteers fighting and dying by the tens of thousands.

Here's a Richard Nixon campaign ad from 1968 that captures the tenor of the times pretty well: This Time Vote Like Your Whole World Depended On It

The U.S. has a long way to go to reach the levels of violence, rage, and division that it endured back then. And if you think the 60s are ancient history, consider that someone voting for the first time in the 1968 presidential election is only reaching retirement age this year.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I have to say I've never been more flabbergasted in my life than by this campaign. So if nothing else full credit to Fuhrer Trump on keeping this completely off balance. But at this point I can honestly believe any theory that isn't this is a serious Presidential bid. Hillary/Democrat plant? Sure. Ted Cruz plant? Sure. Jeb Bush plant? I guess. Plant to showcase how insanely long elections are that this psycho is leading? Yup. ISIS plant? Maybe a touch wild but I could see it.

I just can't see this as a legitimate bid. His consistently unconstitutional and illegal ideas that he thinks will happen simply because he has wildly racist crowds cheering him on doesn't mean they actually will. That those people are so dumb to believe everything he says at face value is amazing. For instance on his ban Muslims pledge now, he was asked how he would identify them to prevent them from entry. His answer? We'll ask them. ####, Donald, who'd have thunk you could just ask and that'll solve terrorism?

#MakeAmerica######edAgain

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

In some ways, it's a testament that it's taken this long for fascism to really appear on the American political landscape.

Populist demagoguery =/= fascism. Let's not pull another 'genocide' and dilute the meaning of a word until it's true horror is no longer recognizable. Trump's campaign rhetoric wouldn't be out of place in half the countries in the world, and half the countries in the world are not fascist.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The Fuhrer continued his pathological lying by saying London has so much radicalization in some parts police won't go there. London's mayor responds...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to read some history. In the 60s you still had segregation and lynching, black kids being spat on for trying to go to white schools, political assassinations at the highest levels, half the campuses in the U.S. paralyzed with protests, the National Guard shooting and killing student protesters, race riots far bigger than St. Louis in dozens of cities, black panthers arming themselves for revolution, skyrocketing violent crime, and war casualties an order of magnitude larger than Afghanistan and Iraq put together. And remember, the U.S. still had the draft at the time, so these weren't volunteers fighting and dying by the tens of thousands.

Here's a Richard Nixon campaign ad from 1968 that captures the tenor of the times pretty well: This Time Vote Like Your Whole World Depended On It

The U.S. has a long way to go to reach the levels of violence, rage, and division that it endured back then. And if you think the 60s are ancient history, consider that someone voting for the first time in the 1968 presidential election is only reaching retirement age this year.

I swear CP makes me a much more knowledgeable person. I love the off topic section for debates like these

[heep223]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to read some history. In the 60s you still had segregation and lynching, black kids being spat on for trying to go to white schools, political assassinations at the highest levels, half the campuses in the U.S. paralyzed with protests, the National Guard shooting and killing student protesters, race riots far bigger than St. Louis in dozens of cities, black panthers arming themselves for revolution, skyrocketing violent crime, and war casualties an order of magnitude larger than Afghanistan and Iraq put together. And remember, the U.S. still had the draft at the time, so these weren't volunteers fighting and dying by the tens of thousands.

Here's a Richard Nixon campaign ad from 1968 that captures the tenor of the times pretty well: This Time Vote Like Your Whole World Depended On It

The U.S. has a long way to go to reach the levels of violence, rage, and division that it endured back then. And if you think the 60s are ancient history, consider that someone voting for the first time in the 1968 presidential election is only reaching retirement age this year.

People always think that today is horrible and yesterday was the golden age, just like every generation thinks the next generation is entitled and lazy. I don't know what this phenomenon is but in a sense it's productive, because it motivates people to continue to push for positive change in the world. The reality is that as a species, our life expectancy is higher than ever in history and our quality of life is the best it's ever been. The quality of our medicine and pace of technological advancement that increases efficiency, access to information and connectedness is growing exponentially. There are certainly pockets of violence in the world, horrible violence. But overall there is far less war than during other periods in history.

The US has its warts but is incredibly resilient. They may fade from greatness one day, but it is not this day.

This Trump stuff is certainly alarming, but they won't vote him into power just as they didn't vote for Palin. It's all just song and dance right now with the media blowing everyone out of proportion and Trump continuing to build his ridiculous brand.

For those feeling really uptight and worried, relax a bit.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by driveway

It's shocking to me how much of a sport American politics has become to people who are deeply personally invested in following American politics. I'm speaking specifically of the community of posters I've been following on-and-off for about a decade now over at FreeRepublic.com. These people are profoundly conservative and really rather frightening.

I first found the site back when I liked to argue with Creationists on the internet when I was in my early 20's and have been pretty much unable to look away ever since. These are the people who form the far-right base of the Conservative movement (they can't even really be called GOP anymore as they're the ones who, for example, viscerally hate Boehner).

Much like CP is a community of people who invest time and energy into the Calgary Flames, these people invest time and energy into the idea of Movement Conservatism. They donate, they hold rallies, they are activist.

And they god damn love Donald Trump. And it's not because they particularly agree with his positions, though a lot of them really like this idiotic no-muslims idea, it's because they see him as winning. Not the election, no, they see him as winning the ... battle? Game? It's hard to express exactly how they see the current political situation, but a sports-metaphor is, I think, the best.

There is the Conservative team, and there is the Other team. The Conservative team is Pro-Christ, Pro-Life, Pro-Guns, and "Pro-Constitution." I put that in quotes because it's a very particular Constitution they are Pro. It's the one that agrees with their ideas and disagrees with the other team. In their eyes, Trump is scoring points for their team. The fact that he's getting attention makes them happy, just like how we were excited for Gaudreau to get Calder attention, or Giordano to get Norris attention. They enjoy that Trump is 'making Liberal heads explode.' That reporters and anchors and editorialists are pointing out the lunacy of his position. They view this as a positive, it's beneficial to their cause to get the attention. They feel that Trump's blunt approach will convince others of the rightness of their cause (which is inherent and should be obvious, but Liberals, Democrats, and Muslims are, in actual fact, evil).

The actual substance of his proposals are not really important. What's important, and what excites them and makes them happy, is the bluntness of his approach, and the attention he's getting.

FreeRepublic, much like StormFront, is a trainwreck that is impossible to look away from. The SA D&D thread following the Freepers for the last ~10 years is the largest catalog of human failure I have ever seen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sometimes I wonder if Trump is trying to find a way out of this campaign and it keeps backfiring.

I mean if you're a American, not an Murican. How can you not think in your head that this ban and the registry list wouldn't cause you to drop in the popularity polls. I mean you just basically Godwined the Republican race.

Then you send out an angry child as your spokes person to the major news networks.

How can anyone logical still be in the lead at this point.

Then I realize its Trump and he's appealing to the lowest common denominator. The scared, the angry, the redneck tough.

Basically he's given an opening to the other Rep candidates if they take this and run with it.

I don't like Clinton at all, I think she's slimy and indecisive and dishonest and a pure politician. But if the other Candidates can't boost themselves behind someone acting or being this crazy, they have no chance against the Democrats.

[wontondestruction]

Next Trump will say America needs internment camps. It's scary that his polling numbers aren't already falling like a stone.

[DuffMan]

The black guy in the POTUS office right now, can't do or say anything right, and the bigotted, misogynist, xenophobic, white guy with the toupe can't say or do anything wrong. Murika.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by wontondestruction

Next Trump will say America needs internment camps.

Does this count?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...0TR1KY20151208

Republican Donald Trump on Tuesday dismissed growing and heated criticism of his proposal to ban Muslims from entering the United States, comparing his plan to the detainment of people of Japanese, German and Italian descent during World War Two.


"What I'm doing is no different than FDR," Trump said on ABC's "Good Morning America" program, referring to then-President Franklin D. Roosevelt, who oversaw the detentions.

[Street Pharmacist]

Wow Trump. Wow

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The Fuhrer continued his pathological lying by saying London has so much radicalization in some parts police won't go there. London's mayor responds...

Trump must not leave his buildings or limos in NYC. When I was there a couple of months ago, that is the first thing that struck me about it, the multicultural aspect. It just seemed if you grabbed a random group of 10 people on the sidewalk, you'd get about 6 or so different backgrounds and cultures out of it.
He'd fit in better in Texas or Alabama.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I swear CP makes me a much more knowledgeable person. I love the off topic section for debates like these

It's shocking how violently polarized American politics were in the 60s. Today really does look tame in comparison. Assassinations: JFK, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy. Attempted assassinations: Nixon, George Wallace.

Wallace makes Trump look like a bumbling amateur in exploiting popular resentment. In 1968, the four-time governor of Alabama ran the most successful third-party presidential campaign in history (after he lost the Democratic nomination in '64) on a platform of rolling back desegregation. His running-mate was former air force general Curtis LeMay, the nuclear first-strike advocate who George C. Scott lampoons in Dr. Strangelove. Wallace's successful 1970 campaign for governor featured an ad where a white girl is surrounded by black boys and the words "Wake up Alabama!" Wallace was shot and paralysed in '72. And he won his last Alabama gubernatorial race in 1983!

The left had its own share of lunatics, among them revolution-preaching black communist leader Angela Davis, a vocal supporter of the prison-guard-murdering Soledad Brothers. Davis was implicated in the botched courthouse rescue that left four dead, including a judge who had his head blown off with a shot-gun taped to his mouth (she provided the guns). Her cause was championed by the counterculture lumunaries of the time (the Stones "Sweet Black Angel" was written about Davis), which helps explain why the new left's favoured candidate, Democrat George McGovern, was absolutely destroyed by Nixon in '72.

If you want to learn more about America in the 60s, Nixonland is an excellent book on the subject.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It's shocking how violently polarized American politics were in the 60s. Today really does look tame in comparison. Assassinations: JFK, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy. Attempted assassinations: Nixon, George Wallace.

Wallace makes Trump look like a bumbling amateur in exploiting popular resentment. In 1968, the four-time governor of Alabama ran the most successful third-party presidential campaign in history (after he lost the Democratic nomination in '64) on a platform of rolling back desegregation. His running-mate was former air force general Curtis LeMay, the nuclear first-strike advocate who George C. Scott lampoons in Dr. Strangelove. Wallace's successful 1970 campaign for governor featured an ad where a white girl is surrounded by black boys and the words "Wake up Alabama!" Wallace was shot and paralysed in '72. And he won his last Alabama gubernatorial race in 1983!

The left had its own share of lunatics, among them revolution-preaching black communist leader Angela Davis, a vocal supporter of the prison-guard-murdering Soledad Brothers, who was implicated in the botched courthouse rescue that left four dead, including a judge who had his head blown off with a shot-gun taped to his mouth.

If you want to learn more about America in the 60s, Nixonland is an excellent book on the subject.

Nixonland is freakin' awesome book.

+1 for that reference.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to read some history. In the 60s you still had segregation and lynching, black kids being spat on for trying to go to white schools, political assassinations at the highest levels, half the campuses in the U.S. paralyzed with protests, the National Guard shooting and killing student protesters, race riots far bigger than St. Louis in dozens of cities, black panthers arming themselves for revolution, skyrocketing violent crime, and war casualties an order of magnitude larger than Afghanistan and Iraq put together. And remember, the U.S. still had the draft at the time, so these weren't volunteers fighting and dying by the tens of thousands.

Here's a Richard Nixon campaign ad from 1968 that captures the tenor of the times pretty well: This Time Vote Like Your Whole World Depended On It

The U.S. has a long way to go to reach the levels of violence, rage, and division that it endured back then. And if you think the 60s are ancient history, consider that someone voting for the first time in the 1968 presidential election is only reaching retirement age this year.

I was doing a bit of travelling (hitchhiking, hopping freights, taking planes) in 67 and spent some time in Toronto. Every day on the Buffalo news it was all about fires. I'm surprised they didn't burn the city down and Detroit was worse. Yeah the times were crazy but there was also hope that a big change was coming. Lots of things are better and we face new challenges but the wars haven't stopped because we are still fools.

oh yeah, the voting age in 1968 was 21 so a first time voter could be 68 now.