iPhone 4 Super Thread: iOS 4.2 Released. Find my iPhone now free

[Russic]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Having an invested partner from the start was huge for Apple. It's easy to look back now and say that it was a mistake, but i think we underestimate how much AT&T played into getting the iPhone out the door (properly tested, subsidized and well-supported)

The cellphone market is so big, even Apple would have had trouble going at it alone. The others would have just walled them out and made it incredibly difficult + expensive to get an iPhone plan, ensuring a flop. You can'tjust shake up a multi-billion dollar industry on a whim. It takes an incredible amount of resources and relationships to pull off.

Truth. It's popular to crap on AT&T but the fact is they are the only carrier of an insanely popular device that stresses their network like nothing before it. I heard on Macbreak a few months back that even though the phone has been out for 3 years, AT&T is only now able to get their network improved because it takes that long to get towers up and functional.

[Azure]

No doubt that Apple changed the game. Absolutely no doubt.

Or should I say Jobs.

Anyways, the deal with AT&T may have benefited Apple at the time, but I'm not convinced that they couldn't have worked with other providers and gained an even bigger market share. Not that its a big deal because now the increased competition is a huge benefit for the consumer, but I doubt Android would be where it is now if Apple had the iPhone on Verizon two years ago.

And I say that as someone who bought maybe the first Android phone in Canada and knows all about the bugs of the early operating system.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Russic

Truth. It's popular to crap on AT&T but the fact is they are the only carrier of an insanely popular device that stresses their network like nothing before it. I heard on Macbreak a few months back that even though the phone has been out for 3 years, AT&T is only now able to get their network improved because it takes that long to get towers up and functional.

I don't know much about the industry, but its hard to believe that it takes THAT long to improve your network.

Me thinks AT&T was reaping the benefits of being the only carrier in the US with the iPhone and didn't really worry that much about having the best network possible.

I think I'm safe in saying that considering Bell, Rogers and Telus all had a better network here in lowly ol' Canada, and all 3 don't have the footprint AT&T does.

Because of that I hope they suffer. Go Verizon go.

[FanIn80]

Answering my own question...

According to both iPhoneclub.nl and iPhoneHellas , Apple will be bringing the same personal hotspot support to current GSM iPhones with a forthcoming iOS 4.3 update.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/11/...rrier-support/

[CKPThunder]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Answering my own question...



http://www.macrumors.com/2011/01/11/...rrier-support/

But it also says it will be up to the carrier to approve this. Why would Rogers want to do this since they're getting $20 (or less) for ipad data sharing and they are selling data plans for the rocket stick.

I'd love to see Rogers implement this but I think I'm being to optimistic.

[photon]

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

But it also says it will be up to the carrier to approve this. Why would Rogers want to do this since they're getting $20 (or less) for ipad data sharing and they are selling data plans for the rocket stick.

I'd love to see Rogers implement this but I think I'm being to optimistic.

On the other hand they already allow tethering if you have the right data plan, allowing wifi sharing on accounts that already support tethering isn't much different.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Azure

I don't know much about the industry, but its hard to believe that it takes THAT long to improve your network.

Me thinks AT&T was reaping the benefits of being the only carrier in the US with the iPhone and didn't really worry that much about having the best network possible.

I think I'm safe in saying that considering Bell, Rogers and Telus all had a better network here in lowly ol' Canada, and all 3 don't have the footprint AT&T does.

Because of that I hope they suffer. Go Verizon go.

AT&T likely had investments to make during the initial and pre-launch phases as well as ongoing support/infrastructure costs. It's not like the iPhone was instant gravy for them.

I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt because the damage to their brand's perception as being reliable offset some of the financial rewards. Could they have acted faster? Maybe. Did they think they were prepared? They probably did. Bill Gates was wrong about RAM. We all make mistakes predicting the future. iPhone adoption was pretty incredible. A big company like AT&T probably had pretty conservative estimates compared to reality.

Also, bell/rogers/telus are hard to factor into it because we don't have anywhere near the same population density as the USA. (although you are right to say we benefited, we certainly did)

[silentsim]

Originally Posted by photon

On the other hand they already allow tethering if you have the right data plan, allowing wifi sharing on accounts that already support tethering isn't much different.

It is because you can't tether to tablets (such as the iPad) through BT but you would be able to with WiFi (thus negating the 10-20$/month Robbers charges)

[FanIn80]

Unless, of course, they decide to charge $10-20/month for wifi hotspot.

What do they do now for the robot phones that supposedly have this? Or is it just some illegal hackjob thing?

[Flaming Choy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Unless, of course, they decide to charge $10-20/month for wifi hotspot.

What do they do now for the robot phones that supposedly have this? Or is it just some illegal hackjob thing?

Free built-in feature with froyo, I believe. Those without froyo can get an app for it.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by Flaming Choy

Free built-in feature with froyo, I believe. Those without froyo can get an app for it.

Could be wrong, but I thought some carriers block the feature on some phones. Maybe that "blocking" is not updating the phone though.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Having an invested partner from the start was huge for Apple. It's easy to look back now and say that it was a mistake, but i think we underestimate how much AT&T played into getting the iPhone out the door (properly tested, subsidized and well-supported)

I'm not saying it was a mistake because I don't think it was. Apple did what was best for Apple.

Apple makes hardware and software - they had no interest in setting up their own cell phone service company with towers, etc. so they were always coming into this as a hardware (with software) manufacturer, but they wanted the control to do it in such a way to maximize their profitability, which is what they did. It was their resources that allowed them to have the leverage to make such relatively outrageous demands on the cell service providers.

My point was to fanin80 that said Apple made an exclusive deal with AT&T for the chance to revolutionize the industry:

Originally Posted by FanIn80

They did it in exchange for the ability to change the entire industry. Whether anyone uses an iPhone or not, every cell phone user on the planet has benefited from the changes that have stemmed from this "incomprehensible" business decision.

We could always go back to paying $25/mb for Blackberry data and browsing the internet on our WAP-enabled phones with the little scrollballs.

They actually did it for the chance to make more profits. They knew they were sitting on a goldmine and negotiated accordingly. And yeah, they changed the industry but that wasn't their motivation...their motivation was making money on a sweet product.

Originally Posted by Flames0910

The cellphone market is so big, even Apple would have had trouble going at it alone. The others would have just walled them out and made it incredibly difficult + expensive to get an iPhone plan, ensuring a flop. You can'tjust shake up a multi-billion dollar industry on a whim. It takes an incredible amount of resources and relationships to pull off.

What do you mean going at it alone? If they didn't have this exclusive deal with AT&T are you suggesting the other option was to start building cell towers? They had an awesome product and they struck the best deal they could with it.

[Azure]

Well Verizon apparently turned on 16 new cell towers in the New York area obviously to handle the the huge amount of customers they'll get after launching the iPhone.

So considering AT&T has had shoddy service in New York for a long time, and now Verizon seems to trying to make sure they don't, that to me indicates AT&T didn't care that much about their network, or their customers.

If the problem they have would only have existed the past year or so, I would be inclined to believe otherwise, but from what I recall, its been going on for a while now.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not saying it was a mistake because I don't think it was. Apple did what was best for Apple.

Apple makes hardware and software - they had no interest in setting up their own cell phone service company with towers, etc. so they were always coming into this as a hardware (with software) manufacturer, but they wanted the control to do it in such a way to maximize their profitability, which is what they did. It was their resources that allowed them to have the leverage to make such relatively outrageous demands on the cell service providers.

My point was to fanin80 that said Apple made an exclusive deal with AT&T for the chance to revolutionize the industry:



They actually did it for the chance to make more profits. They knew they were sitting on a goldmine and negotiated accordingly. And yeah, they changed the industry but that wasn't their motivation...their motivation was making money on a sweet product.



What do you mean going at it alone? If they didn't have this exclusive deal with AT&T are you suggesting the other option was to start building cell towers? They had an awesome product and they struck the best deal they could with it.

You're both kind of wrong and right. Of course any public company's ultimate motivation is to make money but Apple is/was also motivated to change the cell phone industry.

Jobs' second core principle is customer experience and how it is end to end in the customer's eyes. An iPhone with carrier crapware is a bad experience and had they not been able to get AT&T to allow Apple to control the experience, the phone would have never shipped.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Barnes

You're both kind of wrong and right. Of course any public company's ultimate motivation is to make money but Apple is/was also motivated to change the cell phone industry.

Jobs' second core principle is customer experience and how it is end to end in the customer's eyes. An iPhone with carrier crapware is a bad experience and had they not been able to get AT&T to allow Apple to control the experience, the phone would have never shipped.

Do you really think they would have just moth-balled the whole iPhone project if they couldn't get the carrier to agree to their terms? I kind of doubt it. My guess is they negotiated the best deal they could, but if that deal didn't go through they would have taken the second-best deal on the table, whatever one that would have been. It's not like there are infinite carriers out there, and I doubt it would be worth it or desirable to start your own network from scratch just because you have a cool phone.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Do you really think they would have just moth-balled the whole iPhone project if they couldn't get the carrier to agree to their terms? I kind of doubt it. My guess is they negotiated the best deal they could, but if that deal didn't go through they would have taken the second-best deal on the table, whatever one that would have been. It's not like there are infinite carriers out there, and I doubt it would be worth it or desirable to start your own network from scratch just because you have a cool phone.

Have you ever known Apple to cave and allow things to be done in a way they didn't want?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Have you ever known Apple to cave and allow things to be done in a way they didn't want?

I think you'd have a tough time making a business case for scrapping the iPhone when it was far enough along that they were at the point of negotiating with carriers. So my answer is yes, I think they were going to go for the sweetest deal they could, which happened to be the AT&T deal. If that deal didn't go through, they would have gone for the next best one.

Do you think they would have scrapped the iPhone if the AT&T deal didn't go through?

[FanIn80]

I don't understand why you're still arguing this. It's not like it didn't happen or something. We're not making this stuff up. Apple gave AT&T exclusivity in exchange for 100% control over their product and the way the product was sold, serviced and presented.

Nobody claimed it was altruistic (in fact, I distinctly said it wasn't). Apple is a business, they are not a non-profit group. They knew they had to change the way the mobile industry operated in order for them to go to market their way, so that's what they did.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I don't understand why you're still arguing this. It's not like it didn't happen or something. We're not making this stuff up. Apple gave AT&T exclusivity in exchange for 100% control over their product and the way the product was sold, serviced and presented.

Nobody claimed it was altruistic (in fact, I distinctly said it wasn't). Apple is a business, they are not a non-profit group. They knew they had to change the way the mobile industry operated in order for them to go to market their way, so that's what they did.

I don't even think you're reading what I write.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think you'd have a tough time making a business case for scrapping the iPhone when it was far enough along that they were at the point of negotiating with carriers. So my answer is yes, I think they were going to go for the sweetest deal they could, which happened to be the AT&T deal. If that deal didn't go through, they would have gone for the next best one.

Do you think they would have scrapped the iPhone if the AT&T deal didn't go through?

No, they wouldn't have totally scrapped it but the development path would have been considerably different had Cingular not accepted Apple's terms. They scrapped the ROKR and approached Cingular without Motorola before developing the phone. A deal in principle allowed them to start developing a phone based on touch screen, goofy iPod phones and OS X work they were already working on. They had just completed moving OS X to x86 so ARM was the next step.

Had Cingular backed out, Apple was prepared to buy wholesale minutes and resell them as a carrier. They would not have settled with any deal other than the one they got.

End to end control of the customer experience. Without out it, it does not ship. Period.