Federal Election Called for Oct 19, 2015

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by flamesfan6

There's a reason all the top people from the party left (ie MacKay)

This was a wake-up for many in my family as well. As a family of (primarily) Progressive Conservative supporters, we believed that MacKay and Flaherty were the two remaining (strong) progressive voices at the cabinet table.

Who are the strongest voices at the table now? Jason Kenny and Rona Ambrose?

[killer_carlson]

Rona Ambrose does not have a strong voice in cabinet

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Nice move, Trudeau, on the fighter jets. I don't believe that the F-35s are the best fit for Canada, and felt like a backroom deal from the get go. It's worth reading some of the fighter jet thread for the alternatives. (My favorite being the dream scenario of a made in Canada solution, that would cost an arm and a leg, but give us a new national emblem.)

There will never be a made in Canada solution, it makes no sense for an airforce of about 65 jets. Plus with most major Allies in one way or another picking up F35's as members of their fleet, there would be little to no sales opportunity. Plus ramping up and building and deploying jets can take up to 30 years or so when you don't have a military aerospace industry.

To me, I stand by the F35 as the best jet for the job, since Canada has a long procurement and then deployment cycle. The temptation to buy a jet on the edge of obsolescence so you can save a few buck might make you popular with some voters, but in the end it increases the rust out of the military.

And yes the Navy does need new ships as well.

Look none of the governments do particularly well when it comes to procurement, the biggest Hawk in the last 50 years which was Mulroney, completely screwed over the military and especially the Navy. Chretien put money in family members pockets with the Ilitis jeep deal, bought Submarines at a bargin basement price and didn't insist on quality control during the purchase, and allowed moral to drop to its lowest point since the Trudeau the elder days.

Restarting the procurement process is stupid, unless the Liberal intent is to set the bar incredible low and do the whole CF-5 thing all over again where we got a worthless plane.

Maybe Trudeau wants something smaller and more modest to whip out if he wins this election.

But then again, if Mulcair wins, all of our soldiers will be required to get social worker degrees and deploy the M-52 mark 2 peacekeeper towel.

[crazy_eoj]

This guy is supposed to be running for PM?

[FlamesAddiction]

I always felt that the navy is where Canada should be putting most of our eggs as a plug and play component of NATO. Out of the 4 main military branches, I feel the navy probably has the broadest domestic applications given our geography and is therefore money better spent.

Granted, if we are going to be projecting our power overseas by sending our men and women into combat situations, then we need to supply them with the best equipment possible, but whether or not Canada should be a country that does that is another debate completely.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

This guy is supposed to be running for PM?

Is it not his job to know? Such arrogance; I could actually get behind the liberals, especially versus the ndp but their chosen leader is so pompous and out of touch that I simply can't do it.

The thought of this guy representing Canada on the world stage or being opposite of Putin at a table is scary.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I always felt that the navy is where Canada should be putting most of our eggs as a plug and play component of NATO. Out of the 4 main military branches, I feel the navy probably has the broadest domestic applications given our geography and is therefore money better spent.

Granted, if we are going to be projecting our power overseas by sending our men and women into combat situations, then we need to supply them with the best equipment possible, but whether or not Canada should be a country that does that is another debate completely.

You need a balanced combination of both.

You're average ship has a speed of about 30 knots, and a frigate has a sensor bubble of a couple of hundred miles at best, and a weapons range of far less.

A fighter can go at 500 miles an hour and get on scene a lot quicker.

Its no secret that unless you have a massive navy you can't protect your sea ways unless you have air power to fill in the gaps.

While Canada has 12 of the really good Halifax class frigates, they're not all active at the same time, and they are hitting what is effectively their half life, I believe quite a few are now getting their half life upgrades and refits, but they're going to become more and more maintenance heavy as they get older.

We've got one Irquois class guided missile destroyer left in service, and I think the term service is generous. These ships are supposed to be our Command and Control ships and they allow our frigates to form proper task forces with integrated communications and sensor. But currently we can form depleted or flawed pure frigate task forces, but our naval effectiveness is basically halved.
The Iriquois is also more then 40 years old.

We have 4 of the Victoria/Upholder submarines. This was an incredibly bad purchase by the Liberals. The Upholder was a smart design putting a SSN capable submarine in terms of weapons and sensors on a SSK frame. The problem was that the British retired them and then let them rust and the Liberals rushed them here without proper inspections or communication with British naval staff. As it stands though we bought them in 2004, its taken til 2014 to get three of them operational, with one being questionable.

We have no at sea supply craft as our last auxillary is out of service.

The Canadian Navy build plan is a smart one, but it will take a decade to get more ships in the line.

Successive Canadian governments contiunally gouged and neglected the forces to the point that now every service is screaming for money for upgrades or procurement, the Harper government did a fairly good job with land services to delay rust out, but the Navy and Airforce are moving into that critical phase where we won't be combat ready or deployable due to questionable onsolete equipment.

[CaptainCrunch]

anyways I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll stop now.

[Flamenspiel]

Well they did signup a Canadian company for the rebuild:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/irvi...hips-1.2920071

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by eddly

Can we really trust the general population to make the right voting decision with this election?

Fascists share your concerns.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Is it not his job to know? Such arrogance; I could actually get behind the liberals, especially versus the ndp but their chosen leader is so pompous and out of touch that I simply can't do it.

The thought of this guy representing Canada on the world stage or being opposite of Putin at a table is scary.

It seems to me he would prefer to talk about the new toys rather than the price tag for said new toys. Seems like pretty basic political media strategy. Have no idea why some are getting worked up about it.

[surferguy]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

This guy is supposed to be running for PM?

I wouldn't really call this a gotcha moment. He will definitely know how much he is promising over the course of the election but probably doesn't know exactly where he is at the immediate moment. Likely more announcements to come. Better to answer as above because if he gave a number that is different from the current amount of promises it would open himself. Small potatoes IMO.

[flamesfan6]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Is it not his job to know? Such arrogance; I could actually get behind the liberals, especially versus the ndp but their chosen leader is so pompous and out of touch that I simply can't do it.

The thought of this guy representing Canada on the world stage or being opposite of Putin at a table is scary.

No where in that picture says he doesn't know or that it's not his job to know. He just mentions he wants to focus his discussion on other stuff. You are just taking the quote (from an image on the internet) and making a huge jump/assumption on that 1 line. He will obviously know his budgets.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

This guy is supposed to be running for PM?

He was referring to the fact at that exact moment he didn't know the exact sum of his announcements, and that he would rather talk shop in the interview than having to get a calculator out and determine the exact total.

You think a PM candidate would just openly come out and say they don't care or keep track of how much spending they've proposed? Right


But hey, I'm sure I'll see that posted all over Facebook over the next couple days.

[burn_this_city]

If the election comes down to Liberals vs. NDP I would much rather have Trudeau. Wish the hatchet jobs would concentrate on Mulcair, he's by far the bigger idiot.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If the election comes down to Liberals vs. NDP I would much rather have Trudeau. Wish the hatchet jobs would concentrate on Mulcair, he's by far the bigger idiot.

As much as I despise the NDP's fiscal ideas Mulcair is way more competent that Trudeau. If Mulcair was leading the Liberals I would be open to voting for him.

[Canuck-Hater]

I think Mulcair would be a more competent PM than Trudeau by a country mile.

[FlamesAddiction]

I still see Trudeau as more of a figurehead leader. If he fails, it is because the people surrounding him fail. He has some veteran politicians around him, so if he utilizes that properly, I think he can be good.

Mulcair may be a better individual leader, but that does me no good since I have trouble getting behind their policies.

[nik-]

I think the difference between Mulcair and Trudeau is that Trudeau knows he needs help and will use it. Mulcair is a little too headstrong.

If it comes down to those two parties, I'd rather Red than Orange.

[burn_this_city]

I think the Liberals would be more pragmatic, while the NDP are more dogma driven. Mulcair has basically said anything to win the election and we don't really know how he would actually govern.