Canadian Military News

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I think that is an unavoidable problem as Canada hasn't built real warships in a long time, and nothing of the size and complexities of these destroyers. Or really any ship of any kind, to be competitive you need very large shipyards that are constantly building military and civilian like in East Asia. Even the US is seeing a lot of trouble because the government is the only customer left for its few remaining shipyards.



Meanwhile the same shipyards in China that are churning out warships at an incredible rate are also building huge numbers of civilian ships, enabling an extremely experienced, large and efficient work force and supply chains.

Ok, I'm going to rant a bit and its not about your post.



But right now we're in a military emergency. The Halifax's are past their life span, the Arctic Patrol vessels aren't good, and our Submarines are done.


We need to maximize our dollars because we have a small defense budget.


I get the idea of Canadianization and jerbs, I do, and the pride of building our own. But right now its bull####. Right now we don't have the ship yards to properly do that, in fact when Irving got the contracts for the new ships. PArt of that deal was they were supposed to upgrade their ship yards to do it on their dime, but instead they basically blackmailed the government to pay for the yard upgrades.


We also can't afford to over spend on anything, we need to squeeze maximum dollars, so spending 4 billion dollars per frigate is an atrocious waste of money, when other companies are building Frigates for a quarter of that.


If there's something that we can get off of the shelf, then pull the trigger on it, if we can get it with a savings and reduce the coast of the Frigate program to 30 or 40 billion instead of 66 to 77 billion, like its being estimated, then guess what, take that 27 billion and plow it into a 4 ship submarine fleet.



Instead we're pissing away money that we don't have. And these projects are going to delay forever and continue to go up in cost, and we're going to lose experienced members who don't want to serve on rust buckets.


We need to be smarter with our defense dollars. And the dream of Canadian manufactured ships is done because guess what, nobody else is going to buy them, so what happens after a limited production run of 15 ships? That's right nothing.


Rant off.

[CaptainCrunch]

Another dire look at the state of the Canadian Forces.


https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...un-out-of-ammo

While Canada conducts studies to figure out how to resuscitate our domestic production of military ammunition, our allies are aggressively moving forward, modernizing their munitions facilities and ramping up outputs in support of Ukraine.

In the U.S., the Pentagon committed $6 billion to this drive for self-sufficiency in the production of critical ammunition. In just one year — combining Turkish technology with General Dynamics’ leadership and innovation — the Americans have built a greenfield ammunition factory in Mesquite, Texas, that will produce 30,000 to 40,000 rounds a month.
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Meanwhile, Bill Blair, Canada’s Minister of National Defence, promised $4.4 million to three Canadian munitions manufacturers this March, to research and refine processes to design and produce NATO standard 155-millimetre munitions in Canada.

“The Liberal government sees defence spending as discretionary,” concludes Lt.-Gen.(ret’d) Andrew Leslie.

This, from a 35-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF), former chief of staff of the Canadian Army, and one-time Liberal MP under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. This, from an artilleryman who knows what combat looks like on the battlefield and former politician who knows the treacherous terrain of budget wars in Ottawa.

Follow the money, he says: “They (the federal Liberal government) believe there’s a whole host of societal funding requirements, ranging from increases in healthcare, to daycare, to children getting breakfast at school — and a bewildering array of boutique allocations of funds to cater to voter-sensitive initiatives. And defence comes after all of that.”

“They’ve done it in this last budget as well, haven’t they?” Andrew continues. Making promises to spend big money, in the future, to fortify military preparedness.

When Ukraine reached out, desperately, to allies for ammo — in particular, 155-mm artillery shells used in field guns and howitzers — many of us woke up to the reality of CAF’s ammunition shortfall. “Canada has a tiny stockpile of 155-mm ammo,” Andrew confirms, “several thousand training shells,” which would be consumed in about one day in Ukraine. Earlier this year, Canada wrote a cheque for $40 million to support a Czech Republic-led initiative to purchase large-calibre ammunition rounds for Ukraine.
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For me, there’s a feeling of deja vu. When the COVID pandemic began, Canada was caught flat-footed because our domestic vaccine manufacturing capability had been hollowed out. Unlike many other countries, we didn’t have a facility that could be easily retooled to produce vaccines, leaving our citizens dependent on foreign supply chains.

A few years ago, the Trudeau government essentially shut down Canadian-based production of military ammunition, in particular, the 155-mm artillery shell, Andrew reports. It’s all rather mind-boggling, and I ask him to repeat the facts.

“One to two years prior to Russia’s latest invasion of Ukraine in 2022,” Andrew reiterates, “a bunch of idiots decided to cancel the standing offer (with the two Canadian manufacturers of 155-mm artillery shells) because there was no business case for Canada to continue investing in the production of ammunition.”

The federal government decided Canada’s military did not need a secure supply of ammunition; “that’s the inevitable conclusion,” Andrew winces. So we went from domestically producing a sizeable quantity of ammunition (which we used to train our armed forces soldiers, and stockpiled for our friends and allies), he explains, to producing a trickle.
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Not surprisingly, the war in Ukraine prompted people in Canada, and NATO, to ask questions about our domestic munitions capacity.

There’s been talk of modernizing factories where ammunition is made in Canada — specifically, facilities operated by IMT Defence in Ingersoll, Ont., and two Quebec-based affiliates of General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems in Quebec. In 2023, the Ministry of National Defence allocated $4.8 million to IMT Defence to bolster production. And this March, the three ammo facilities were promised $4.4 million to conduct research.

As recently as last month, Blair assured an audience at the Economic Club of Canada, “We’re going to invest in Canadian industry to create those new production lines and secure those supply chains. We’re putting money on the table in our budget to ensure we can offer those long-term contracts to Canadian industry.”

Andrew shrugs. He can find no proof that the Canadian ammo facilities have received funding to do studies. But, our conversation isn’t all doom and gloom. Talking about ammunition — the mechanics of it all — animates Andre

“When was the last time the Prime Minister, the Minister of National Defence, and the Minister of Finance went together to an army base?” he implores. “I don’t mean overseas; I mean here in Canada.”

It’s a rhetorical question.

The demoralizing impact on recruitment is obvious. Our troops have limited ammunition for training and aging equipment. “According to the numbers I have,” Andrew reports, “72% of the army’s vehicles and trailers are offline.”

“I think the big issue is, right now, the men and women in uniform don’t see any demonstrable proof that the federal government is actually seized of the issue of trying to get them the capabilities they need to better defend Canadians.”

He hastens to add: “No one who’s wearing a uniform is to blame.”

[CaptainCrunch]

Remember Canada sent 8 Leopard 2A4's to Ukraine, and it was after Cannibalizing other tanks to get them rolling. Out of the 54 of them that we have left and I think the 20 A6's how many of them actually are combat capable.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Remember Canada sent 8 Leopard 2A4's to Ukraine, and it was after Cannibalizing other tanks to get them rolling. Out of the 54 of them that we have left and I think the 20 A6's how many of them actually are combat capable.

I honestly don't believe the general public truly understand condition of the military

[CaptainCrunch]

Nor do they care



Right now we have a non functional navy, where we are sending slow lightly armed coastal defense vehicles on NATO excercises. Our Halifax Frigates are in a constant state of updating as they slowly rust apart and that's if we can get enough personal to man them.


70% of the vehicles in ground forces are non functional, and we basically have a couple of days of ammo at worst, so its likely they're not training all that much. And its more then likely that we are nowhere near at full strength with any of our units.


Our Airforce couldn't get planes off of the ground in any kind of timely fashion to track balloons, and from what I read there's a shortage of ground crews and pilots.



If there was ever trouble, its questionable if the Forces could deploy and even less lightly that we can fight effectively.



I've said that if Justin and the Liberals decided to send troops into an active zone, we'd plant more then half of them on day one.

[Monahammer]

Anyone know why the HMCS Max Bernays, one of the new arctic patrol ships, is currently in Hawaii?

Why?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Anyone know why the HMCS Max Bernays, one of the new arctic patrol ships, is currently in Hawaii?

Why?

Taking part in a major multi-national exercise:


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...ic-region.html

I'd also expect that being the biggest and newest ship in the Navy, it's more easier for the Canadian force commander to lead from and more comfortable for them and their staff compared to a Halifax.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Nor do they care
.

Nor have they ever....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Nor have they ever....

True, the only time that Canadians care is when the coffins start getting unloaded from the planes.



And frankly as we bolster our troops in Latvia, and talk tough about Ukraine, the bottom line is that right now, if we have to deploy into a warzone with the way our forces is composed now, and the way that we can't recruit or retain any of the good senior NCO's and good experienced officers. We'll plant half of our troops in a short period of time.



Then we'll all stare at our feet and mumble, maybe we should have done things properly and not ignored this until it became a crisis.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...source=twitter

OTTAWA — On the eve of a major NATO summit, the federal budget watchdog says the government is overestimating defence spending and that Canada will be even further than expected from its 2 per cent military investment commitment by the end of the decade.


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Ottawa overestimating defence spending, will only spend 1.42% of GDP on military by 2030: PBO

Government says it will reach 1.76 per cent by 2030, but PBO estimates a gradual decline from a peak of 1.49 in 2025-2026
Author of the article:
Christopher Nardi
Published Jul 08, 2024 • Last updated 6 hours ago • 5 minute read





361 Comments








Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux says the Liberal government won't reach the levels of defence spending they claim by 2030. Photo by Adrian Wyld /THE CANADIAN PRESS
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OTTAWA — On the eve of a major NATO summit, the federal budget watchdog says the government is overestimating defence spending and that Canada will be even further than expected from its 2 per cent military investment commitment by the end of the decade.

In a spending analysis quietly published Monday, Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO) Yves Giroux threw cold water on the Liberal government’s latest military spending projections, saying that they overstate how much the department will realistically spend by the end of the decade.
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In a statement, Defence Minister Bill Blair’s director of communications Daniel Minden said the government “strongly disagrees” with Giroux’s projections and remains “confident” in its projections

The new PBO estimates come on the eve of a major NATO summit in Washington, D.C., set to begin on Tuesday.

Whereas the government says that it will be spending $54.9 billion in NATO-eligible military expenditures by 2029-2030, the PBO estimates that number will more likely be $52.2 billion.

Giroux also found that the government is overshooting how much of its gross domestic product (GDP) it will be spending on NATO-eligible defence expenditures by 2029-2030.

While the government says it will reach 1.76 per cent by the end of the decade, the PBO estimated it would be 1.42 per cent after a gradual decline from a peak of 1.49 per cent in 2025-2026.

In a foreign policy speech Monday, US House Speaker and Republican lawmaker Mike Johnson lambasted Canada for failing to meet its NATO commitments in what could be a preview of the discourse if Donald Trump is elected US president in the fall.

“Shamefully, Canada announced in the last few days … that they won’t be ponying up, they’re not going to do their two per cent. Why? Talk about riding on America’s coat tails,” Johnson said during a speech at Hudson Institute, a Conservative think tank.

“If you’re going to be a a member nation and participant (in NATO), you need to do your part.”

Canada’s NATO allies are reportedly increasingly frustrated with the country’s lack of a clear timeline to hit the two per cent mark.

Monday, Politico quoted a half-dozen unnamed diplomats from NATO countries saying they are “fed up” with Canada’s lagging defence spending and that it will be top of mind during the summit this week.

In May, a bipartisan group of 23 U.S. senators including Mitt Romney, Ted Cruz and Joe Manchin wrote a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau calling on him to up its military spending and respect its NATO commitments.

They said they were “concerned and profoundly disappointed” in the government’s current spending projections, which are higher still than the PBO’s.

“Canada will fail to meet its obligations to the Alliance, to the detriment of all NATO Allies and the free world, without immediate and meaningful action to increase defense spending,” reads the letter.

[CaptainCrunch]

Trudeau pulls a fleet of conventional submarines out of his ass at the NATO summit. No details, time lines, or anything, but they're coming.

This is what this government does.

The funny thing is that none of the reporters believed anything he was saying, and I doubt the other NATO heads believe it either.


I recorded a transcript of his speech.


"Yeah, we're going to build a fleet of submarines, the biggest fleet in the world, that's the ticket.

And for every dollar that we spend on defence, $10.00 will come back, So I've balanced the budget, yeah.

And we're going to drop Bill Blair into Ukraine and he's going to end the war all by himself with our newly invested nuclear armagedon nuclear tank that I built myself, yeah.
Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go and have dinner with my wife, Morgan Fairchild, whom I've seen naked"

[Roughneck]

Just paint them black, strap on a C6 robbed from an infantry unit, and baby, you've got yourself a sub fleet!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Just paint them black, strap on a C6 robbed from an infantry unit, and baby, you've got yourself a sub fleet!

Right now, I'd trust those way more then the current Victoria class submarines, that have never been trouble free.


Frankly when we thought about purchasing them, I thought it was a good move. Take the sensor and weapons suites of what would be a SSN like a first flight LA class, and put it in a Diesel body to create a really effective SSK.



But the British saw the stupidity of the Canadian government at the time, knew that the boats had deteriorated during storage but put on their best Herb Tarlick reversable plaid suit jacket and sold a bad class of Submarines.



And then instead of doing the smart thing and #### canning the whole class, tried to make them last as long as possible while throwing dollar after dollar at them.


I would hope that if we do buy a new class of submarine, that we don't even try to build them ourselves or try to Canadianize them, but select a good class of boat that's currently in production, slap a flag on it and call it a day.


MAybe the Scorpene class submarine made by France, The Type 212A out of Germany, The Harushio out of Japan or even the Goto class.


We don't have the time or dollars to build our own class, we don't have the expertise or facilities for a short production run modification.


BUY OFF THE SHELF.

[btimbit]

Please, for once, don't get cute about it. Just join the 212CD program with Norway and Germany, and call it a day.

[Julio]

There has been reports in the last few that the RCN has been looking at South Korean subs.

[CaptainCrunch]

The KSS batch 3's that are currently being built, and they're neat boats, but they're more designed for coastal defense, wheras Canada does need a sub with a combination of coastal and Blue Water operations with NATO. The 212cd is almost ideal because its propulsion system I think allows for nearly a month submerged, whereas the Korean boats are about half that.



The 212CD is a bit faster submerged. with rumoured up to 25 knots submerged which is compatible to an SSN, though I imagine running at 25 would murder the battery endurance.




What does Canada need.



A boat that can do coastal patrols, and keep up to a NATO fleet while submerged.

A boat that can function in the arctic, and drag the flat, so endurance is important.

A boat with next generation sensors and sonars and interoperability.

A boat with a decent test depth, rumor has it that the Yasen Class can dive to about 1400 feet, with a crush depth of 2100 feet.

[btimbit]

^It really is an interesting program (The 212CD)

212A was nothing to get excited about but this is neat

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by btimbit

^It really is an interesting program (The 212CD)

212A was nothing to get excited about but this is neat

The 212A is a good boat, but the German designs are built around coastal defense, Canada has a need for a more versitile boat.



The Japanese Conventional subs are really leading edge in terms of sensor and weapons.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Anyone know why the HMCS Max Bernays, one of the new arctic patrol ships, is currently in Hawaii?

Embarrasingly, it looks like it might be stuck in Hawaii for awhile.

National Defence spokesperson Kened Sadiku confirmed HMCS Max Bernays had to return to Pearl Harbor on July 12 due to mechanical issues and seawater flooding into one of the areas of the vessel. It took the crew about 30 minutes to stop the flooding, but before that could happen around 20,000 litres of seawater entered the ship. Technicians also discovered that there were problems with a pumping and cooling system so they recommended HMCS Max Bernays return to Pearl Harbor.

“The engineering systems are currently being assessed, and timelines for repair completion are unknown,” said Sadiku.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...is%20newspaper.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Embarrasingly, it looks like it might be stuck in Hawaii for awhile.



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...is%20newspaper.

Lol, our procurement mentality really needs a overhaul