American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

If three posts is a lot of time, then, okay, a lot of time.

Obviously,.I can only speak for me on this one, plus I am not living in the US, so I wouldn't extrapolate from this to others

I want to know what I'm getting, from any candidate. Trump, right now is the devil we know. We also know that a lot of the old guard members of his previous administration are gone, fired or retired. There won't be as much to hold him back this time. His personal whims will dictate a lot of things. I can do the math when it comes to him, maybe a Dem. controlles house or senate can keep him in check until he hits his lame duck period. Heck, fractured republican party might even do that.

I don't know what I get with Harris. Former DA, Attourney General, low profile/sidelined as a VP. (contrast to Cheney, there was a VP who let you know what you were getting).

So, what does possibly 8 years of a Harris administration look like? That's what I'm waiting to find. That's why I don't like her mushy/evasive interview, why I think ahe is a bad candidate .

You know the saying, when someone tells you who they are believe them? There should.be another when, when someone won't tell you who they are, don't believe them.

I appreciate your relatively insult-free inquiry on the topic. It's rare in this thread.

I don’t know if she personally would be a good president, but she seems smart enough and rational enough to surround herself with good people. Move away from the head to head presidential candidate comparison and look the administration vs administration projection and the gap gets even wider IMO.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Cancer is bad. Foot fungus is bad for different reasons. I mean, this clearly needs to be said or the "cancer derangement syndrome" will get out of hand.

There, am I doing it right?

You forgot that foot fungus cures cancer in this scenario.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Trump, right now is the devil we know. We also know that a lot of the old guard members of his previous administration are gone, fired or retired. There won't be as much to hold him back this time. His personal whims will dictate a lot of things. I can do the math when it comes to him, maybe a Dem. controlles house or senate can keep him in check until he hits his lame duck period. Heck, fractured republican party might even do that.

Wrong. With the Supreme Court squarely in his corner, there's nothing stopping him from implementing much of Project 2025, including transforming government agencies into his personal lackey departments, cracking down on any media outlet he deems unfriendly to him, and assaulting democracy with voter suppression tactics and jailing his political opponents via sham charges.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...l-be-that-bad/

In other words, if Trump gets back into power, you can fully expect America to rapidly look more and more like Russia or Hungary. Trump has met with Orban multiple times this year!

I don't know what I get with Harris. Former DA, Attourney General, low profile/sidelined as a VP. (contrast to Cheney, there was a VP who let you know what you were getting).

So, what does possibly 8 years of a Harris administration look like? That's what I'm waiting to find.

She's made it pretty clear. Protecting a woman's right to choose, fairer tax policy, background checks/red flag laws/assault weapons ban, strong border policy (she endorses the border bill that Trump blocked), more investments in green energy (while continuing to produce traditional energy), student loan forgiveness and replacing lead pipes, continue the fight to bring down prescription drug costs, protect SS/Medicare/Medicaid/ACA, make it easier for workers to form/join unions.

That's why I don't like her mushy/evasive interview, why I think ahe is a bad candidate .

You keep saying "evasive interview" but don't say specifically which answers you didn't like, or what you wanted her to say instead.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

If three posts is a lot of time, then, okay, a lot of time.

Obviously,.I can only speak for me on this one, plus I am not living in the US, so I wouldn't extrapolate from this to others

I want to know what I'm getting, from any candidate. Trump, right now is the devil we know. We also know that a lot of the old guard members of his previous administration are gone, fired or retired. There won't be as much to hold him back this time. His personal whims will dictate a lot of things. I can do the math when it comes to him, maybe a Dem. controlles house or senate can keep him in check until he hits his lame duck period. Heck, fractured republican party might even do that.

I don't know what I get with Harris. Former DA, Attourney General, low profile/sidelined as a VP. (contrast to Cheney, there was a VP who let you know what you were getting).

So, what does possibly 8 years of a Harris administration look like? That's what I'm waiting to find. That's why I don't like her mushy/evasive interview, why I think ahe is a bad candidate .

You know the saying, when someone tells you who they are believe them? There should.be another when, when someone won't tell you who they are, don't believe them.

I appreciate your relatively insult-free inquiry on the topic. It's rare in this thread.

Beyond Cheney (who was a literal war criminal and evil mastermind, so I'm not sure I want future VPs having the kind of power that man had), can you really tell me what previous VPs have done? They're generally just there in case the President dies, or as a tiebreaker vote in a 50/50 senate. Otherwise really, what VP has ever really been a standout? What did Pence do? What did VP Biden do that was notable (outside of some pretty high profile gaffes)? What did Gore do? etc etc.

As for her time as DA/AG: for as much as the GOP talks about protecting children, she actually did it? Like she prosecuted people who had assaulted children.

I also really love her project to assist young, low-level/non-violent drug offenders, in a way that got them job assistance/etc, to reduce recidivism, so that instead of taxpayer dollars keeping minor criminals in jail, it actually helped them to stay out of jail. It's a bit of reform that I would love to see happen on the broader scale.

Her proposed economic/tax policies are reminiscent of Bill Clinton's and for any of his other flaws as a president/human being, his administration was the last time the US had a surplus.

She would support access to a woman's right to choose, she supports LGBTQ+ rights, she wouldn't put right-wing, Christian Nationalist ideological nutjobs on the Supreme Court.

Beyond that, given her VP pick, she has proven that she will listen to the more left voices of the Dem coalition, which is sorely needed. She's certainly not perfect in that regard, of course, but she skipped the obvious/traditional Dem choice of Shapiro for the farther left/more progressive Walz, which is a good sign.

The thing is she actually has said quite a bit, and she has given far, far more policy detail than Trump has, but she's held to an entirely different standard than he is.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The fact that you hyper fixate on soundbites from years ago, instead of what she's been saying since becoming the nominee (especially her DNC speech), speaks volumes.

She's a leader.

Trump is not a leader... unless you want him to lead you off a cliff.

I don't know if she is much of a leader. She is really uninspiring. I hope she is enough of a leader to get the vote out. Should not need to - no thinking person should ever vote for the other guy/side, but it's America

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

What did VP Biden do that was notable (outside of some pretty high profile gaffes)?

The best thing VP Biden gave us were the Onion's hilarious "Diamond Joe Biden" stories.

https://twitter.com/user/status/931693960828989440

https://twitter.com/user/status/808403159622287360

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1830712307531555317

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The fact that you hyper fixate on soundbites from years ago, instead of what she's been saying since becoming the nominee (especially her DNC speech), speaks volumes.

She's a leader.

Trump is not a leader... unless you want him to lead you off a cliff.

Trump is a leader, he's just a dangerous leader.

With Biden out of the picture this should have been a slam dunk. If Harris can somehow win the debate next week I think it's hers, I bet the Dems are putting her through non stop debate and Interview coaching because the CNN interview was not a great look.

[DeluxeMoustache]

lol

Not a great look. Because you say so?

You know what? Trump wasn’t the greatest president ever for black Americans

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

lol

Not a great look. Because you say so?

Yes, thats my opinion.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Yes, thats my opinion.

That’s marvellous

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You know what? Trump wasn’t the greatest president ever for black Americans

I missed this from my first reply as you ninja edited.

Was that directed at me? wtf, no ####.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I missed this from my first reply as you ninja edited.

Was that directed at me? wtf, no ####.

It’s simply a reference to a statement made with zero underlying substance

Thought that was the level we were shooting for

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

If three posts is a lot of time, then, okay, a lot of time.

Obviously,.I can only speak for me on this one, plus I am not living in the US, so I wouldn't extrapolate from this to others

I want to know what I'm getting, from any candidate. Trump, right now is the devil we know. We also know that a lot of the old guard members of his previous administration are gone, fired or retired. There won't be as much to hold him back this time. His personal whims will dictate a lot of things. I can do the math when it comes to him, maybe a Dem. controlles house or senate can keep him in check until he hits his lame duck period. Heck, fractured republican party might even do that.

I don't know what I get with Harris. Former DA, Attourney General, low profile/sidelined as a VP. (contrast to Cheney, there was a VP who let you know what you were getting).

So, what does possibly 8 years of a Harris administration look like? That's what I'm waiting to find. That's why I don't like her mushy/evasive interview, why I think ahe is a bad candidate .

You know the saying, when someone tells you who they are believe them? There should.be another when, when someone won't tell you who they are, don't believe them.

I appreciate your relatively insult-free inquiry on the topic. It's rare in this thread.

Hope Mathgod will finally give me some credit here. This is an absolutely insane take.

I still believe that people should make Harris and the Dems earn their votes and pressure them into more progressive positions, but saying "I'd rather take the devil I know" when the devil you know is a bat####, narcissistic, neofascist, is so profoundly stupid.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hope Mathgod will finally give me some credit here. This is an absolutely insane take.

I still believe that people should make Harris and the Dems earn their votes and pressure them into more progressive positions, but saying "I'd rather take the devil I know" when the devil you know is a bat####, narcissistic, neofascist, is so profoundly stupid.

It's also funny because it's the complete opposite of things people said about Trump the first time: that he's an outsider who will "drain the swamp", or that with him there's at least a chance that something will change.

Now, Trump IS the swamp, the most openly corrupt politician probably in US history, who extremely obviously does not care about helping anyone but himself and his billionaire backers. Yet this time.being "the devil you know" is a good thing when it was a bad thing for Clinton.

This is what always gets me about conservatives defending their voting: absolute lack of any consistency in supposed beliefs, and the way the bar for the Democrats is always set impossibly high while the bar for Republicans has always been non-existent.

The reason Trump can do stuff that would kill a Democratic campaign all the time is to me not so much about Trump, it's just that it's become more obvious that this is what the Republicans are likem

Republicans have absolutely no standards for morals, behavior or competency for their candidates, and that's how you ultimately end up with people like Trump and Vance.

[Ped]

It's just a bizarre take... we know that Trump is probably the most corrupt and venal candidate for president ever. He's the only former president to be a convicted felon. He's an adjudicated rapist. He literally tried to steal an election. There is very strong evidence that he knew about, facilitated, or was involved in child rape.



But Kamala could be worse, somehow?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ped

It's just a bizarre take... we know that Trump is probably the most corrupt and venal candidate for president ever. He's the only former president to be a convicted felon. He's an adjudicated rapist. He literally tried to steal an election. There is very strong evidence that he knew about, facilitated, or was involved in child rape.



But Kamala could be worse, somehow?

“I’d rather vote for a rapist than vote for someone who hasn’t raped anyone but could, I guess, in theory, maybe do that.”

[Ped]

It just shows the frankly dishonest double-standard we're holding Democrats and Republicans to.


One hand:
Adjudicated rapist
Convicted Felon
Clear signs of dementia
Liar
Fraud
Cheater
Etc...


Vs.


Poor speaker and uninspiring



Choice is clear, can't vote her in!

[burn_this_city]

Republicans have no underlying belief system, it's been evident for 9 years now.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Republicans have no underlying belief system, it's been evident for 9 years now.

Well, they believe in winning at all costs, and holding power for all it's personal benefits.

MTG should be refilling the weight rack at a gym. Instead she gets the seat at the restaurant reserved for a congressperson. All she has to do it motivate the other mouth breathers and incels to vote for her in the primary, and she gets to keep a life of luxury she didn't earn, despite what it does to the country.

Political reality TV.