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Old 06-18-2012, 03:24 PM   #1981
Cecil Terwilliger
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Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger View Post
Unlike the Turkey loss this one doesn't really sting. Croatia was exciting, showed a great type of game, and deserved a better fate. They had to open it up and go balls out to get a result and Spain popped a late one. Nothing to be ashamed of. If the tie breaker was different Italy would be the one going home, so, no reason to be mad over that. Onwards to World Cup qualifying and hopefully Ukraine can give me something to cheer for tomorrow
Ok this post is definitely after, there was no tiebreaker involved here.

Spain 7
Italy 5
Croatia 4
Ireland 0

Those are the final group standings.

Even if you're saying that Spain only scored because Croatia needed a goal against Spain and had opened it up, well then we're back to the fact that Italy did score against Spain and Croatia didn't.

Don't get me wrong, I would have preferred a Croatia victory (if I had to choose between one of them winning) but alas we now have to deal with Spain moving on.

FTR as my posts in this thread will attest to, I'm not a huge fan of the tiebreaker set up either.

EDIT: I guess I'm just trying to say I would have like to have seen Croatia advance but let's not pretend they got jobbed here. I didn't see a lot of people who were going to feel sorry for Italy if they had gone out on a stupid tiebreaker.

Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 06-18-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:25 PM   #1982
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On the downside because stupid Spain had to score, Italy won't get 1st in the group.

Now I'm hoping England comes out of Group D in 1st. I'd prefer them over France.
I'd MUCH prefer the Italians over the Spaniards. Lots of Englishmen to bring out the crazy in Balotelli.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:37 PM   #1983
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I didn't have the clearest view at the pub. Was Spain's goal offside?
It's a little vague. I think it was offside.

The pass goes forward to Iniesta who is NOT in an offside position but Navas is.
However to me Navas doesn't re-establish himself as being back onside again and just runs along with the play. Then Iniesta passes to Navas who scores into an open net. That pass is fine.

http://www.tsn.ca/window/Euro2012/in...#clipid_702776

at 5:00
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:38 PM   #1984
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I didn't have the clearest view at the pub. Was Spain's goal offside?
I don't think so according to my interpretation of the offside rule. Navas was clearly offside when the ball was passed to Iniesta but was onside when Iniesta passed to him.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:39 PM   #1985
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no but Busquets had Corluka in some kind of wrestling move hold
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:40 PM   #1986
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I don't think so according to my interpretation of the offside rule. Navas was clearly offside when the ball was passed to Iniesta but was onside when Iniesta passed to him.
But I think Navas has to re-establish himself.. or else if I were him I'd just stand offside all day, let my teammates receive passes and the run alongside them.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:26 PM   #1987
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Good goal.

1. Iniesta onside when receiving pass, Navas not interfering with play.
2. Navas onside when he received the pass from Iniesta.

Navas not active during the first pass, not attempting to play the ball or interfering with anyone.

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But I think Navas has to re-establish himself.. or else if I were him I'd just stand offside all day, let my teammates receive passes and the run alongside them.
Nothing in the rules about re-establishing himself and he can do the latter all day as long as he isn't interfering with play.

Croatia should have had a penalty. That was a judo move.

I'm glad to see Navas smash the ball into the net. Can't imagine the whining if he had passed or walked it over the line ......
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:41 PM   #1988
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I'm glad to see Navas smash the ball into the net. Can't imagine the whining if he had passed or walked it over the line ......
I would have laughed had he somehow kicked it over the bar with that kick.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:14 PM   #1989
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Good goal.

1. Iniesta onside when receiving pass, Navas not interfering with play.
2. Navas onside when he received the pass from Iniesta.

Navas not active during the first pass, not attempting to play the ball or interfering with anyone.



Nothing in the rules about re-establishing himself and he can do the latter all day as long as he isn't interfering with play.

Croatia should have had a penalty. That was a judo move.

I'm glad to see Navas smash the ball into the net. Can't imagine the whining if he had passed or walked it over the line ......
The interfering with play is the subjective part I've always had trouble understanding.
Navas wasn't interfering with play? really? the defender had to hold the line and mark him. When Navas then runs forward to score the goal from an offside position, he's gotten a head start on the defender. That's pretty unfair.
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:22 PM   #1990
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Whether you feel it's unfair or not, by the letter of the law it's a good goal.

He's not interfering with anyone.

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The source of most confusion is clearly in the definition of 'active'. Pundits keep falling back on the dictionary definition of the word, or their own version of it, rather than the one set out in the laws. It's intensely frustrating to see them spreading misinformation - misinformation that leads to the sort of abuse that drives officials out of the game.To be clear, the definition, in the laws, is this: in deciding whether to flag, assistants must watch out for three things, any one of which would make an offside player active.
First, is the offside player interfering with play? As advised by the IFAB since 2005, that means playing or touching the ball. Attempting to play the ball does not count - he must actually play or touch it.
Second, is the player interfering with an opponent's ability to play the ball, by clearly obstructing the opponent's line of vision or movements, or by making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent?
And third, is the player 'gaining an advantage'? This last point is specific, and is not what Match of the Day seem to think it is. It applies only to an offside player playing a ball that rebounds to him from an opponent, the post or the crossbar. If he does not play the ball from the rebound, then he is not penalised for being in that offside position. Nothing else counts as 'gaining'.
And that's it. If a player ticks any one of those three boxes, he is offside. The three-part definition is remembered as 'PIG' - if a player doesn't Play, Interfere or Gain, he is fine.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...tball.comment3
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Old 06-18-2012, 07:32 PM   #1991
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Originally Posted by Bagor View Post
Whether you feel it's unfair or not, by the letter of the law it's a good goal.

He's not interfering with anyone.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...tball.comment3
You're completely right but I don't like the rule. I didn't see the games today so I didn't see what happened.

My thought has always been that if the ball is played towards an area with an offside player, that player has to take himself out of the play so as to not influence the defender. Either by re-establishing himself onside or running out of bounds. I feel that as soon as a defender is forced to check a mark on an offside player that player is interfering in play.

But from what I have read it sounds like it was a perfectly good goal by the current rules.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:08 PM   #1992
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You're completely right but I don't like the rule. I didn't see the games today so I didn't see what happened.

My thought has always been that if the ball is played towards an area with an offside player, that player has to take himself out of the play so as to not influence the defender. Either by re-establishing himself onside or running out of bounds. I feel that as soon as a defender is forced to check a mark on an offside player that player is interfering in play.

But from what I have read it sounds like it was a perfectly good goal by the current rules.
You should look at the replay. I don't think Navas re-establishes himself but it's very bague.



Quote:
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Whether you feel it's unfair or not, by the letter of the law it's a good goal.

He's not interfering with anyone.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008...tball.comment3
Different scenario for you... same play but instead of passing the ball to Iniesta, Fabregas shoots and the ball is saved by the keeper. The rebound comes to Navas and he scores.

Is Navas offside?
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:37 PM   #1993
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You should look at the replay. I don't think Navas re-establishes himself but it's very bague.





Different scenario for you... same play but instead of passing the ball to Iniesta, Fabregas shoots and the ball is saved by the keeper. The rebound comes to Navas and he scores.

Is Navas offside?
Yes. That would be part 3. He was offside when cesc kicked it and gained from being offside.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:44 PM   #1994
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Yes. That would be part 3. He was offside when cesc kicked it and gained from being offside.
hmm very interesting.

I don't see how stroking in a rebound is gaining an advantage but receiving a pass from a teammate is not. I know there's an extra pass in there but there no way the Croat defender can chase back a forward who was already offside.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:59 PM   #1995
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hmm very interesting.

I don't see how stroking in a rebound is gaining an advantage but receiving a pass from a teammate is not. I know there's an extra pass in there but there no way the Croat defender can chase back a forward who was already offside.
the post you quoted of mine was my thought on what I would like onside to be. it's a good goal
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:34 AM   #1996
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Go England - that is all!
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:04 AM   #1997
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Big surprise here, German fans behaving inappropriately. Neo-nazi banners were sighted in Lviv. Lovely. Thugs.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, viele Hooligans

Germany face a second charge from Uefa

Uefa have started disciplinary proceedings against the German Football Association over the "improper conduct" of fans in the 2-1 win over Denmark .
Germany have been charged over fans letting off fireworks and "the displaying of inappropriate banners and symbols, and inappropriate chanting".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18502562

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Old 06-19-2012, 09:00 AM   #1998
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^ Barbaric Hooligans, sullying the good name of Football supporters worldwide. Kick them out of the tournament.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:01 AM   #1999
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Group D Scenarios for today:

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France:
Advance with win or tie
Advance with a loss by one goal.
Advance with ENG win or tie.
Advance with loss AND ENG loss by the same number of goals.
Eliminated with loss AND ENG loss AND lose by one more goal than ENG AND score the same number of goals (or less) as England.
Eliminated with loss AND ENG loss AND lose by two more goals than ENG
Otherwise advance with loss.

England:
Advance with win or tie
Advance with loss and FRA loss AND lose by one less goal then FRA AND score at least the same number of goals as France.
Advance with loss and FRA loss AND lose by two less goals than FRA

Ukraine:
Advance with Win
Eliminated with Tie or Loss

Sweden:
Cannot Advance.

France is by far the closest team to secure an advancement after two games played in any group, despite having only a win and a tie - as long as they do not lose by two goals, they will advance, and can advance even if they lose by two goals.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:02 AM   #2000
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Sieg um jeden Preis is their motto. At least it should be.
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