Canadian Military News

[Cheese]

so just wondering here, if any of you guys had the chance, what would be your steps to making the Canadian forces relevant again, and further how could we protect our country at every corner?

[LanceUppercut]

I'm not an expert in anything military, but I would say Canada should focus on the air force and navy. Build up the F-35 fleet, supplemented by many many drones. Completely revamp our naval procurement to stop enriching the Irving's and get some functional ships. For ground forces, I'd probably try to create more reserve forces vs. standing infantry/armor formations. These would be for the off chance we ever get invaded. Canada helping our allies with air/sea power would be a good niche for us in my opinion. Finally, pay our armed forces wages that do not land them in poverty/needing food banks to get by.


This is never going to happen because it would require a pretty massive investment into the military.


EDIT: Trump is an ####### and completely unhinged, but he does have a minor point in most of NATO needing to take a bit more responsibility for their own defense. Canada has had the benefit of relying on the US for way too long.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know if its even possible anymore, there are two types of spending and Canada needs a major influx of both capital and budget spending.



The F-35 can be a game changer for using a small air force to cover a large country. But you almost have to build your military around this type of technology.



I agree with the above, the airforce and navy are key and crucial, especially in terms of defending the border. The army is key if you want to maintain your good standing with the States and with NATO.


But I think in broad strokes.


Navy, I think there are major problems with the selection and construction of the multirole frigates that we're building. The Aussies have already come out with safety issues and the fact that these boats are heavy and not as fast as advertised.



I think submarines are crucial to Canada, they are the ultimate force multiplier, defender of areas of the ocean and intelligence gathering tools. But we need to start looking at new subs, the current Victoria class boats are too unreliable and obsolete and we can't waste money on restoring them.



I think Canada also needs to focus on air defense, there's a reason why the Russians and Chinese are focusing on the next generation of hypersonic missiles, we need to be able to defend Canada and ships and military assets need to protect themselves.



Also cyber is its own branch of military. Again there's a reason why they are concentrating and investing heavily on cyber warfare. With a goal of hitting some keyboard and stealing money, or over loading a power plant, of shutting down sensor platforms. We have to do a better job of cyber defense and I believe that has to fall to the military.



Yes Ground forces are sucking the hind tit right now. If war happens and Canada deploys troops into a modern combat theatre with our level of training, our quality of personal and leadership and our equipment, we will suffer massive losses on day one.



But we can't afford to spend money on everything at once. We have to focus.



The F-35 is a great piece of the road map with sensor fusion and intelligence sharing through the air, we want to build a military that links everything together. For example what the F-35 see's everything see's.



I think if we had forward vision, we need to focus on a modern networked and linked military.



But do we have the will? Nope. Do we have people that are eager to join a military that Canadians and their government clearly don't give a #### about? Nope.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

I'm not an expert in anything military, but I would say Canada should focus on the air force and navy. Build up the F-35 fleet, supplemented by many many drones. Completely revamp our naval procurement to stop enriching the Irving's and get some functional ships. For ground forces, I'd probably try to create more reserve forces vs. standing infantry/armor formations. These would be for the off chance we ever get invaded. Canada helping our allies with air/sea power would be a good niche for us in my opinion. Finally, pay our armed forces wages that do not land them in poverty/needing food banks to get by.


This is never going to happen because it would require a pretty massive investment into the military.


EDIT: Trump is an ####### and completely unhinged, but he does have a minor point in most of NATO needing to take a bit more responsibility for their own defense. Canada has had the benefit of relying on the US for way too long.

I like your thoughts but you can't ignore the army.

Planes/Ships/Drones might win land but Infantry is needed to hold the land.

If Canada is to meet it's Treaty Obligations it needs a well trained & equipped land force capable to rapid deployment both nationally & internationally.

[Lubicon]

I've always thought there would be some merit in somehow folding the Coast Guard in with the military. I look at the US as an example, and maybe I'm off base here and don't understand how the US Coast Guard operates. Things like Search and Rescue helicopters and some coastal patrol duties with smaller vessels, station them in numerous bases on the coast, for example Prince Rupert, Newfoundland etc.). That almost seems like low hangin fruit and a way to give at least a small bump to 'military' spending.

[CaptainCrunch]

Another article on the sad state of the Forces.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jam...ada-vulnerable

The life cycle of military planes can be estimated from Day 1. So it’s a head-scratcher that the training aircraft for Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) fighter pilots have reached the end of their useful lives, with no replacement on the way. If you’re even remotely familiar with the Canadian Armed Forces, this failure to prepare is exactly what should be expected.
Article content

The RCAF communications department will assure you that this is all a good thing. “The Royal Canadian Air Force is reaffirming its presence at a major multinational jet pilot training school and placing its fighter lead-in training squadron on hiatus,” reads the first line of a recent CAF newsletter.

Article content

The retiring plane is the CT-155 Hawk, which is what pilots fly before they graduate to the CF-18. It has been in use for 24 years. Since Canada is, eventually, upgrading its fighter fleet to F-35s, the older-style Hawk has become outdated. But Canada is not ready for the switch. So it is halting its domestic fighter training program until a suitable plane is secured, and will conduct this work in the United States, Finland and Italy in the meantime.

The road to upgrade the fighters took incredibly long, leading to inflated costs. The benefit of all that time, though, is that it affords room to prepare. One would think that during the decade of F-35 fence-sitting, or even the past year since the purchase was finalized, someone at the Department of National Defence could have figured out the plan to acquire complementary training planes. Alas, no.

This is a symptom of the CAF’s deeper problems when it comes to personnel. About 10 per cent of roles in the already-small force are vacant. In the procurement department, 30 per cent of roles aren’t filled. As it turns out, lining up replacement equipment becomes kind of difficult when there’s not enough people to do the job.

“Over the past three years, more people have left than have entered,” said Defence Minister Bill Blair last week at a conference in Ottawa. “Frankly, it’s a death spiral.”

All of the CAF’s recruiting roles have been filled, Gen. Wayne Eyre told Parliament in 2022, but to little avail. Standards for recruits are be lowered every year, as well. Long nails, hair dye and face tattoos were permitted in 2022. More recently, the CAF has begun excusing some applicants from aptitude tests to cut down on processing time, and is expanding recruiting to those with medical conditions.

It’s hardly a surprise that people aren’t leaping at the chance to work for a military that doesn’t have enough equipment to run, that has about 35 per cent of its membership reporting that they have insufficient equipment to properly do their jobs and that insists on promoting divisive identity politics among its ranks.

Nor is it surprising that people don’t want to enter an emaciated organization that’s facing looming budget cuts (which the generals can’t call “cuts” — government orders), and has already dealt housing allowance cuts to members (the latter were rolled into smaller housing subsidies for lower-ranking members, leaving older members out to dry).

It’s a case of system-wide dysfunction. And now, we can’t even train our own fighter pilots at home.

Maj.-Gen. Rob Dundon, a higher-up in the Department of National Defence’s equipment program, told an industry magazine in December that the equipment needed to replace what was sent to Ukraine was “significant.” So far, about $220 million worth.

This includes howitzer artillery, ammunition, guns and Leopard tanks. Just buy more, right? But the military can’t do that. Dundon said the company that makes Canada’s howitzers won’t be manufacturing any more until 2028. And as for the Leopard tanks, his department is still “waiting for a CAF strategy decision on which way they want us to execute.”

The government has sent eight tanks to Ukraine since the start of the war, and still doesn’t have a plan to replace them. Canada’s ammunition supply would last only three days in the event of war (not 30, as required by NATO), but Blair has “been working on what have been challenges in acquiring” it. Once again, no apparent plan.

[speede5]

Near and dear to my heart having worked on the Hawk since it's arrival.

The blame for the lack of a more modern trainer lies is really not on DND, until the F-35 procurement was official there was no way to move forward on a FLIT aircraft/program. DND has major issues but I give them a pass on that line. That said, the Hawk could have been pushed along for a few more years.

[Baron von Kriterium]

Someone reset the "The Number of Days Since the News Told Us We're Fecked" counter.

Artillery ammo. The reality is that we only have five minute's worth for a regimental fire mission. Mind you, anything longer than that causes major problems for the M777 as it wasn't designed for sustained fire.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Baron von Kriterium

Someone reset the "The Number of Days Since the News Told Us We're Fecked" counter.

Artillery ammo. The reality is that we only have five minute's worth for a regimental fire mission. Mind you, anything longer than that causes major problems for the M777 as it wasn't designed for sustained fire.

Wait a minute. Do you have more info on that?

[Baron von Kriterium]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wait a minute. Do you have more info on that?

All I can really add is the info was from a meeting a few weeks ago with a higher HQ's ammo dude. Hyperbole? Perhaps.

[Harry Lime]

Touched on by CC, but I've always wondered how Canada could be a real player in NATO and NORAD defense, and not simply a hummingbird to the Americans eagle. Cyber defense and warfare is something that Canada could invest heavily into, and punch above our weight with lesser investment, given our advantages.

[undercoverbrother]

Happy International Peacekeeper Day.

31 years ago, #### me

[Ugly Kid Joe]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Happy International Peacekeeper Day.

31 years ago, #### me

Good lord...just realized I was in Bosnia 30 years ago today...in the mountains above Mostar. Thanks for the reminder!

[accord1999]

The Canadian Surface Combatant gets officially named as River-class destroyers.


https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...estroyers.html


Not a bad naming scheme given the many great rivers in Canada, though with the size of the new destroyers I thought they might have been named after provinces and territories as major capital ships often are in other navies.

[btimbit]

Actually love that name.

[CaptainCrunch]

Here's hoping that this doesn't become another black hole project, that stuffs the pockets of Irving.



The type 26 seems to have problems where ever it gets purchased, The British are basically unhappy with the cost over runs



There was a pretty scathing report put out by the Australians a couple of years back that there were safety and design issues, and the Frigate was going to be slower and less fuel efficient then they thought it would be.



And somehow the costs of building these ships went from about $15 billion for 15 to over 60 billion or 4 billion dollars a copy. Which is really costly, considering the Americans are building their next gen Constellation class Frigate for about a billion a copy.



Lets not forget that Irving Shipyards was responsible for building the Arctic/offshore patrol vessels, and that was an entire sh$t show of poor quality control, and major issues that weren't covered by any kind of builders warranty.



Look we need replacement frigates for the Halifax class Frigates, they're at the end of life here. But does anyone really believe that the government of Canada in combination with Irving should be in charge of this project? I don't have a lot of faith in military procurement or construction in Canada anymore.



Frankly if for example we decided to build our own F-35's, I'm betting they would cost 10x as much, be built by Bombardier, and explode when you turned on the windshield wipers.

[CaptainCrunch]

Also



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/car...ence-1.7249581

Lt.-Gen. Jennie Carignan has been named the next chief of the defence staff, CBC News and Radio-Canada have learned — making her the first woman to serve as the top commander of the Canadian military.
Carignan will succeed Gen. Wayne Eyre as leader of the Canadian Armed Forces, a senior source said.

Carignan is currently the military's chief of professional conduct and culture — a newly-created position she's held since April 2021, when she was tasked by the federal government with combating sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces and changing the military's culture.
Carignan is considered a trailblazer for Canadian women serving in combat roles.

In 2016, Carignan became the first woman from a combat arms trade to rise to the rank of general. She also has served in a number of top staff posts, including chief of staff to army operations at army headquarters.
Her overseas assignments include deployments to the Golan Heights, located between Syria and Israel, and Bosnia and Herzegovina. She led a task force of engineers in Kandahar from 2009 to 2010, at the height of the Taliban insurgency in the restive Afghan province.

Carignan takes over the Canadian Armed Forces at a challenging time.
The military has been grappling with what a damning external report by Louise Arbour — a former justice of the Supreme Court and one-time UN high commissioner for human rights — called a toxic culture of sexual misconduct. Nearly a dozen leaders have been accused either of sexual impropriety or of downplaying abhorrent behaviour in recent years.
At the same time, the military is facing what Defence Minister Bill Blair acknowledged is a recruitment "death spiral."
Earlier this year, CBC News reported that only 58 per cent of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) would be able to respond if called upon in a crisis by NATO allies right now — and almost half of the military's equipment is considered "unavailable and unserviceable".

Frankly this isn't a surprise at all, but Canada's choices for the Chief of Defense role, since about 2012 has been a fricken disaster of incapable leadership, some outright scum bags like Vance, or passive blundering incompetance.



So hopefully this turns into a good choice because the Forces needs it. This appointment was no surprise at all, though I'd hoped that they would have appointed Maj Gen Steve Boiven who had commanded JTF2, then moved on to command all special Forces in Canada.



The Forces is in a self admitted death spiral though, with awful recruiting numbers, terrible retention problems, and equipment that has been allowed to rust for too long.



I still don't think its fixable anyways.

[btimbit]

Oh of course the river class will continue to be a ####show. That'll never change

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Look we need replacement frigates for the Halifax class Frigates, they're at the end of life here. But does anyone really believe that the government of Canada in combination with Irving should be in charge of this project? I don't have a lot of faith in military procurement or construction in Canada anymore.

I think that is an unavoidable problem as Canada hasn't built real warships in a long time, and nothing of the size and complexities of these destroyers. Or really any ship of any kind, to be competitive you need very large shipyards that are constantly building military and civilian like in East Asia. Even the US is seeing a lot of trouble because the government is the only customer left for its few remaining shipyards.



Meanwhile the same shipyards in China that are churning out warships at an incredible rate are also building huge numbers of civilian ships, enabling an extremely experienced, large and efficient work force and supply chains.

[btimbit]

Edit:nvm