So about Glenn Beck's little 'Restoring America' Rally...

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Alveda is not cut from the same cloth as her uncle:
"Homosexuality cannot be elevated to the civil rights issue. The civil rights movement was born from the Bible. God hates homosexuality." King had been making public appearances throughout 1997 criticizing gay rights.

The uncle spread love, the niece spreads hate. She fits right in with Beck.

MLK was anti-abortionist.....do you really know what his stance on Homosexuality was?

I think not.

Thor? Not thanks for this one? Why not? Didn't know that MLK was just another backwater yank?

[tjinaz]

Alveda is not cut from the same cloth as her uncle:
"Homosexuality cannot be elevated to the civil rights issue. The civil rights movement was born from the Bible. God hates homosexuality." King had been making public appearances throughout 1997 criticizing gay rights.

The uncle spread love, the niece spreads hate. She fits right in with Beck.

You would be hard pressed to find a pastor from any denomination that was pro homosexuality in the 60s. Oh but wait ... King was religious? He must have been a right wing hater too because as you well know anyone that is religious is only capable of hate and ignorance. That redneck Ghandi too!

[tjinaz]

Iceland's Alþíngi parliament was founded 980ad, is the oldest living democracy on earth.

I dont think you can count either isle of Mann or Iceland as they were both governed by monarchies at higher levels. Iceland by Norway and Denmark and Isle of Mann by the UK.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

You would be hard pressed to find a pastor from any denomination that was pro homosexuality in the 60s. Oh but wait ... King was religious? He must have been a right wing hater too because as you well know anyone that is religious is only capable of hate and ignorance. That redneck Ghandi too!

What does this have to do with anything? Pastors in the 60s would be wrong to hold that view and would be wrong today. There were plenty of Pastors in the sixties than held more understanding and intelligent views of homosexuality than Alveda.

MLK Jr was a revolutionary. He fought for justice and did a lot to achieve it. He was one of the most progressive leaders of our time. He was probably homophobic given his background but that's an assumption on my part. If he was homophobic, it does not take away from progressive changes he brought the United States. In comparison to the religious right of today, who are homophobic in an age where we know it's not a choice, are reactionary to the point of actively trying to make the country dumber, and are blatant hypocrites in their personal lives.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by HOZ

MLK was anti-abortionist.....do you really know what his stance on Homosexuality was?

I think not.

Thor? Not thanks for this one? Why not? Didn't know that MLK was just another backwater yank?

MLK Jr might have been against homosexuality back in the day, but I think if he was around this day an age he wouldn't have been. Just look at what his wife's thoughts on it were:



Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.

• Chicago Defender (1 April 1998)

For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people. Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions

• Chicago Tribune (1 April 1998)

I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.

• Reuters (31 March 1998)

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

What does this have to do with anything? Pastors in the 60s would be wrong to hold that view and would be wrong today. There were plenty of Pastors in the sixties than held more understanding and intelligent views of homosexuality than Alveda.

MLK Jr was a revolutionary. He fought for justice and did a lot to achieve it. He was one of the most progressive leaders of our time. He was probably homophobic given his background but that's an assumption on my part. If he was homophobic, it does not take away from progressive changes he brought the United States. In comparison to the religious right of today, who are homophobic in an age where we know it's not a choice, are reactionary to the point of actively trying to make the country dumber, and are blatant hypocrites in their personal lives.

So what exactly are YOU trying to say?
MLK was a revolutionary/homophobe? Religious leaders today are simply homophobe-unvisionaries making people dumber? I mean like Al Sharpton.

Do you have a laser-like visionary view of the future?

Maybe like Seabass you believe we would be space bound already if it weren't for religious bigots like MLK?

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Sowa

MLK Jr might have been against homosexuality back in the day, but I think if he was around this day an age he wouldn't have been. Just look at what his wife's thoughts on it were:



Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.

• Chicago Defender (1 April 1998)

For many years now, I have been an outspoken supporter of civil and human rights for gay and lesbian people. Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions

• Chicago Tribune (1 April 1998)

I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.

• Reuters (31 March 1998)

Ya sure. Just because it makes us feel better about ourselves. You have no idea and honestly evidence is against you. Sorry

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ya sure. Just because it makes us feel better about ourselves. You have no idea and honestly evidence is against you. Sorry

I found this hilarious.

"For instance, a pastor may preach an entire sermon on social ills, focusing on sexual immorality and homosexuality, and then turn the service over to the openly gay choir director to minister with song and music."

I'll stick with MLK's wife's thoughts, thank you.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ya sure. Just because it makes us feel better about ourselves. You have no idea and honestly evidence is against you. Sorry

Funny how you dont accept this opinion when you are defending your religious beliefs.

never mind I'm just going to keep waiting for my jetpack they promised me in the 50's

[Thor]

Originally Posted by HOZ

MLK was anti-abortionist.....do you really know what his stance on Homosexuality was?

I think not.

Thor? Not thanks for this one? Why not? Didn't know that MLK was just another backwater yank?

Well he's from another era where it was a commonly held belief by liberals and conservatives.

His niece however is living in modern America and holds backwards beliefs, her uncle was just par for the time.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

I dont think you can count either isle of Mann or Iceland as they were both governed by monarchies at higher levels. Iceland by Norway and Denmark and Isle of Mann by the UK.

That doesn't explain away The Six Nations or San Marino but lets cut to the chase, what you really want to say is that the USA is the oldest democracy.

You also ignore the UK's Constitutional Monarchy in which Parliament has held power since 1649.

After the restoration of the monarchy under Charles II, the supremacy of parliament was a settled principle and all future English and later British sovereigns were restricted to the role of constitutional monarchs with limited executive authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_England

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by HOZ

So what exactly are YOU trying to say?
MLK was a revolutionary/homophobe? Religious leaders today are simply homophobe-unvisionaries making people dumber? I mean like Al Sharpton.

Do you have a laser-like visionary view of the future?

Maybe like Seabass you believe we would be space bound already if it weren't for religious bigots like MLK?

Yes, like Al Sharpton. I certainly don't align myself with him. What I was saying is that MLK was a person that fought for Justice and his views of homosexuals, given the time, while unfortunate, can be forgiven. Since he has done so much good.

I don't know what the future will be like, but I know what I want the future to be like and I vote for, argue for, and try to promote that vision of the future.

Your last sentence is completely asinine, as I'm not Seebass, I'm not sure what this has to do with space, and it's obvious we'd be a lot further behind without MLK Jr.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ya sure. Just because it makes us feel better about ourselves. You have no idea and honestly evidence is against you. Sorry

I don't know how a research paper about the lack of acceptance of homosexuality amongst black protestants is better evidence than views of his closest loved ones. His wife's views would better reflect what his views more so than a research paper. However, if you wanted to bring up actual evidence. You could look at the views of his son and daughter who don't advocate for gay marriage, but thinks there should be a recognized partnership of some type (which I consider unacceptable). Although I disagree with them, they aren't really being homophobic with that idea. How about some quotes from some of his closest friends:

"Martin Luther King was one of most tolerant and understanding and generous persons I've ever known, and I'd never heard him make a judgmental statement about anyone's sexuality except his own," said former United Nations Ambassador Andrew Young, who was a top aide to King.

King wouldn't have stood for discrimination of any kind, said the Rev. Joseph Lowery, who co-founded the Southern Christian Leadership Conference with King. "I don't recall any experience that would put Dr. King in the category of excluding people," he said.

Julian Bond said in 2005: “Many gays, many lesbians, worked side by side with me in the civil rights movement. Am I supposed to tell them now thanks for risking their lives and their limbs to help me win my rights but that they are excluded because of the circumstances of their birth? Not a chance.”
He also said; " I think Martin King would stand as his widow stood -- in favor of them."

How about the fact that one of his biggest mentors Bayard Rustin was openly gay. He taught King about nonviolent resistance?

So where's your overwhelming evidence. I have quotes from people who knew him, you have a research paper that doesn't even mention his name.

[SeeBass]

using ones family's opinion today of how one would think today, 42 years after their death seems a little silly

anybody who has had a conversation at a family dinner table should know that

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

using ones family's opinion today of how one would think today, 42 years after their death seems a little silly

anybody who has had a conversation at a family dinner table should know that

Ok well how about the fact that he had an openly gay close friend and mentor, does that no show that he had tolerance of homosexuality?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Do you want Palin or some other hating incompetent in power to handle these problems?

Have I not said numerous times that Palin is the last person that should be POTUS?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Stimpy

I think you're really reaching to find connections. I mean, you're presenting stuff that happened 40 years ago as proof of current activity and then mistaking certain social positions and causes with leftist ideology.

You presented your viewpoint as if there has never been such a thing as left-wing terrorism, or a left-wing militia.

Go back and read your own post.

I just pointed out otherwise.

Right-wing militias have been active in the US for as long as the US has existed. The only reason they're getting more attention lately is because the media loves to vilify them, immigration, and because the US government is screwed up.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Ok well how about the fact that he had an openly gay close friend and mentor, does that no show that he had tolerance of homosexuality?

I think the proper answer is that we just don't know. There were probably a lot of people that privately weren't against homosexuality or gay marriage, but they never talked about it.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Ok well how about the fact that he had an openly gay close friend and mentor, does that no show that he had tolerance of homosexuality?

easy fella I'm on your side.

both sides are using it as evidence for this discussion.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Have I not said numerous times that Palin is the last person that should be POTUS?

The thing is, if you don't want Palin as POTUS, you should take this movement seriously.