WestLRT Construction Transgression thread

[Table 5]

Must be me, but I think if they are going through all this trouble, they should've gone to 5 car-minimum stations already. You just know that pretty soon that they will reach capacity with 4 as well and it would've been smart to be a bit ahead of the game (although I know that's not Calgary's style when it comes to infrastructure!).

It's not like 5 is that crazy, quite a few subway networks out there are around 10.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

2014 - they have been working on this for 2 years already. Who do they hire to do these things, wow.

I don't know about the downtown stations, but SNC Lavalin is doing the West LRT leg, and they're working feverishly on getting it done. They have incentive to finish early too - they get bonuses for every day ahead of schedule they complete the work. I think it's very likely we won't have to wait until December of 2012 to start using the West leg LRT.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

They have incentive to finish early too - they get bonuses for every day ahead of schedule they complete the work.

Sounds like an incentive to cut corners. I'm ok with waiting for something if it's done right...quality takes time.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Must be me, but I think if they are going through all this trouble, they should've gone to 5 car-minimum stations already. You just know that pretty soon that they will reach capacity with 4 as well and it would've been smart to be a bit ahead of the game (although I know that's not Calgary's style when it comes to infrastructure!).

It's not like 5 is that crazy, quite a few subway networks out there are around 10.

Downtown blocks are too short. Many stations had to be moved over a block to be rebuilt to handle four because of this. 5 car platforms creates some problems at many of the suburban stations too.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't know about the downtown stations, but SNC Lavalin is doing the West LRT leg, and they're working feverishly on getting it done. They have incentive to finish early too - they get bonuses for every day ahead of schedule they complete the work. I think it's very likely we won't have to wait until December of 2012 to start using the West leg LRT.

No complaints on them, more so on the expanding all stations to 4 train platforms.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Must be me, but I think if they are going through all this trouble, they should've gone to 5 car-minimum stations already. You just know that pretty soon that they will reach capacity with 4 as well and it would've been smart to be a bit ahead of the game (although I know that's not Calgary's style when it comes to infrastructure!).

It's not like 5 is that crazy, quite a few subway networks out there are around 10.

I think you'd have a pretty hard time fitting a 5 car train between lights on 7th Ave, so that's probably why they're not going that far.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

2014 - they have been working on this for 2 years already. Who do they hire to do these things, wow.

Only the 7th Avenue Refurbishment has been going (well, actually restarted) for a couple years. The extensions for the rest of the system has only just started. I think it could have gone quicker too, but there are limitations. For one, having more than one station closed in one direction would have made train service on 7th Avenue even more chaotic than it has been already with the closures.

Also, often times it's not "who they hire," on projects like this, but how the funding (often involving provincial grants) is structured. The project may get, say, $50M in funding, but it's broken up as 2007: $15M, 2008: $25M, 2009: $10M. The Northwest extension to Tuscany, which was originally supposed to be done in 2012 got pushed back to 2014 because the structure of the funding from the province changed.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Sounds like an incentive to cut corners. I'm ok with waiting for something if it's done right...quality takes time.

I agree. Is July 2012 really that much different than December 2012 or later? We're already waiting two years, make sure it's done properly!

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Also, often times it's not "who they hire," on projects like this, but how the funding (often involving provincial grants) is structured. The project may get, say, $50M in funding, but it's broken up as 2007: $15M, 2008: $25M, 2009: $10M. The Northwest extension to Tuscany, which was originally supposed to be done in 2012 got pushed back to 2014 because the structure of the funding from the province changed.

Sounds like salary cap tinkering to me!

[frinkprof]

One more thing to add to 4 car train talk. The platforms and traction power system upgrades being done by 2014 will only ensure 4-car capacity. Still need more LRVs to move to actual capacity increases through operation of 4 car trains.

[You Need a Thneed]

I have a feeling that, for at least the South-NW line, they will plan ahead for a future expansion to 5 car trains, at least for the stations where doing so might be a problem in the future. There is no sense doing a major rebuild of a station only to have to do another major rebuild 10-15 years down the road. The stations that will need major work to get to 4 car length will be rebuilt so that the extension to 5 cars is easy.

I don't think that the NE-West line will ever require 5 car trains - if it does, by that time, the whole line might need to be rebuilt and put underground anyway.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

One more thing to add to 4 car train talk. The platforms and traction power system upgrades being done by 2014 will only ensure 4-car capacity. Still need more LRVs to move to actual capacity increases through operation of 4 car trains.

To start, they will run 4 car trains at a slightly longer frequency to start, until enough trains are ordered (budget constraints)

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Sounds like an incentive to cut corners. I'm ok with waiting for something if it's done right...quality takes time.

The incentives for getting done early are significantly less than the penalties for doing shoddy work.

All the work is inspected anyway, especially on projects like this.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

To start, they will run 4 car trains at a slightly longer frequency to start, until enough trains are ordered (budget constraints)

That's what I mean. If you run 3 car trains at a frequency of 5 minutes, and then switch to 4 cars every 6:40, you still have the same capacity. The extended platforms themselves don't increase capacity, you have to buy more LRVs to increase the trainlength while keeping frequency the same or better than before.

[mykalberta]

Also every day its not operational is lost revenue to CT. That and the Encana building are being built at record pace it seems. I guess thats what happens when you dont nickel and dime things.

[Sr. Mints]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't know about the downtown stations, but SNC Lavalin is doing the West LRT leg, and they're working feverishly on getting it done. They have incentive to finish early too - they get bonuses for every day ahead of schedule they complete the work. I think it's very likely we won't have to wait until December of 2012 to start using the West leg LRT.

No kidding! I'm amazed how fast the thing is progressing. Granted, all of my construction and engineering knowledge comes from playing with LEGO when I was a kid, but Dec 2012 seems silly.

Incidentally, I'm in the process of buying a home in Spruce Cliff and am reeeealy excited for c-train service up there.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't know about the downtown stations, but SNC Lavalin is doing the West LRT leg, and they're working feverishly on getting it done. They have incentive to finish early too - they get bonuses for every day ahead of schedule they complete the work. I think it's very likely we won't have to wait until December of 2012 to start using the West leg LRT.

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

No kidding! I'm amazed how fast the thing is progressing. Granted, all of my construction and engineering knowledge comes from playing with LEGO when I was a kid, but Dec 2012 seems silly.

Incidentally, I'm in the process of buying a home in Spruce Cliff and am reeeealy excited for c-train service up there.

December 2012 isn't silly, and is quite realistic given the amount of work that has to be done. Apparently they are as much as month behind in some areas and there will be some 24 hour/day shifting starting up to compensate and get back to schedule.

Remember that there's still an interchange to construct at Sarcee/17th Avenue, a large portion of the tunnel near Westbrook that has to wait until the old Ernest Manning High School closes in June 2011, and the fact that the 69th Street Station area (the Station, not the Parkade) won't start up for quite some time yet. It is going fast, but there's lots to do.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Sr. Mints

Incidentally, I'm in the process of buying a home in Spruce Cliff and am reeeealy excited for c-train service up there.

Cool, I'll look for you while I wait to catch the bus by Sudan-town!

[Knut]

So they will finish right when the world ends eh.... That way they can make it like crap and no one will complain. SMART!!

[BurningYears]

http://www.calgary.ca/portal/server....+City+Plan.htm

kinda old but talks alot about various subways downtown and a mega complex like thing in the centre city plan pdf at 6.3/6.4 interesting!

Plan for a multi-modal transit “station” at 2
Street SW between 5 and 10 Avenue SW that
integrates underground and at-grade LRT lines,
the BRT routes, high speed rail to Edmonton,
regional commuter rail/bus lines, parking facilities
for automobile and bicycle and the appropriate
supportive land uses. A “station” may include
purpose-built structures and connections (above,
below or at street level) through other private
and public facilities and structures. Taken
together, these structures and connections will

form an integrated “station” complex

[SilverGS]

Calgary's Grand Central Station. How old will I be when that comes around I wonder.