Smoking laws coming into effect Jan. 1

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

From when I was young I know everyone knew what store you could go to, or when a certain person was working that would sell to under-ages. What can be done to cut down on that?

If the fact that I'm 30 and still get ID'd pretty regularly for cigs (whenever I'm clean shaven) but not for booze, I think they're sending a pretty strong message to retailers.
A couple weeks ago I got ID'd and the guy apologized when he saw my age. I told him it was no big deal as I worked in a gas station back in the day and I was deathly afraid of the fine you get if you're caught selling to someone underage.
The guy started chatting a bit and told me that the fine is pretty steep now. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was in the neighbourhood of $2500 for the actual person that sells it and $5000 for the business.
That's great to hear. I certainly don't want to insinuate that it's anybody elses fault but my own that I smoke, but like you said, Bobblehead, back in the day, I knew exactly where to go to get smokes. Who would sell them, etc... I can't help but wonder whether I'd have just given up trying to find them if they weren't so easy to get at both the stores close to my high school.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I certainly don't want to insinuate that it's anybody elses fault but my own that I smoke, but like you said, Bobblehead, back in the day, I knew exactly where to go to get smokes. Who would sell them, etc... I can't help but wonder whether I'd have just given up trying to find them if they weren't so easy to get at both the stores close to my high school.

I cannot think of any blanket measure from the government (like this) that can get people to quit. It is a very personal thing.

Actually right now, I am trying to quit (thus I might be more edgy than normal) because my grandson and his mom will be staying us for a few weeks while daddy is away on work.

I agree with Bobble, prevention is where they would be further ahead.

btw, nice sig 4X4

[Superfraggle]

Wow...lots of straw men popping up here. This discussion is about smoking. The fact that other things are also bad for you is irrelevant. That's a subject fit for another conversation.

As for smoking: I'm don't care if they make it entirely illegal or not. I do think they should make it illegal in all public places and around minors.

I don't care if you are willing to take the risks for yourself and smoke lots. The problem is you are making the same choice for me. As a non-smoker I can, and do, do a lot to avoid tobacco smoke nowadays. Unfortunately, I can't eliminate it completely. I still frequently end up getting a whiff of unwanted second hand smoke just walking down the street.

Every breath of second-hand smoke I get increases my odds of serious health problems. What gives you the right to decide that the small scale of that risk is acceptable? It is my life you're gambling with. As I said, do what you like with your own. Leave me out of it.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

As a non-smoker I can, and do, do a lot to avoid tobacco smoke nowadays. Unfortunately, I can't eliminate it completely. I still frequently end up getting a whiff of unwanted second hand smoke just walking down the street.

What exactly do you do (and do a lot of of) to avoid tobacco smoke nowadays? What activities and locations do you steer clear of to avoid it? I can't think of a single place that allows smoking.

I frequently end up getting a whiff of unwanted car exhaust and diesel fumes. I don't want to live in the woods though, so I deal with it.

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

Every breath of second-hand smoke I get increases my odds of serious health problems. What gives you the right to decide that the small scale of that risk is acceptable? It is my life you're gambling with. As I said, do what you like with your own. Leave me out of it.

If you avoid second-hand smoke at all costs (whatever they may be), it's not your life smoker's are gambling with, it's your self-proclaimed "right" not to smell something you don't like that you are gambling with.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

What exactly do you do (and do a lot of of) to avoid tobacco smoke nowadays? What activities and locations do you steer clear of to avoid it? I can't think of a single place that allows smoking.

It's simple. By not going where smokers congregate, I can cut down on a lot of second hand smoke. Smoking is still largely a social thing. By avoiding those groups, I avoid a lot of smoke. Absurdly simple? Yes. Effective? Also yes. Perfect? Heck no.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I frequently end up getting a whiff of unwanted car exhaust and diesel fumes. I don't want to live in the woods though, so I deal with it.

*sigh* there goes that straw man again. The fact that car fumes are bad for you is not relevant in the debate over whether or not smoking should be allowed. Whether or not smoking is banned, and to what degree, will not alter the realities of car exhaust and diesel fumes.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

If you avoid second-hand smoke at all costs (whatever they may be), it's not your life smoker's are gambling with, it's your self-proclaimed "right" not to smell something you don't like that you are gambling with.

I did not say I avoid it at all costs. I said I avoid it. If I can smell it, it is entering my body and may do some damage. I never said anything about the smell. Nor did I say anything about having a "right" not to smell something I don't like. Hardly self-proclaimed.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

It's simple. By not going where smokers congregate, I can cut down on a lot of second hand smoke. Smoking is still largely a social thing. By avoiding those groups, I avoid a lot of smoke. Absurdly simple? Yes. Effective? Also yes. Perfect? Heck no.

So what you are saying is that you make an effort to avoid standing outside of the odd doorway where people might be smoking. Is that really a hassle for you? Would you otherwise be standing there, if not for the smokers?

It is absurdly simple. So is my habit of not standing where I have no interest in being. I find it to be very effective, so we do have that in common.

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

*sigh* there goes that straw man again. The fact that car fumes are bad for you is not relevant in the debate over whether or not smoking should be allowed. Whether or not smoking is banned, and to what degree, will not alter the realities of car exhaust and diesel fumes.

Why isn't it relevant? If pollution and the health of your lungs is important, shouldn't you be griping about the big polluters? There was a lot more nasty stuff being pumped out into the air you breath since you started reading this than there was cigarette smoke all day.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I can't help but wonder whether I'd have just given up trying to find them if they weren't so easy to get at both the stores close to my high school.

You know if they were truely serious about curbing youth smoking maybe the way to go would just outlaw selling cigarettes anywhere within 500 feet of a junior or sr high.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by First Lady

Actually right now, I am trying to quit (thus I might be more edgy than normal) because my grandson and his mom will be staying us for a few weeks while daddy is away on work.

Attagirl. You are doing the right thing.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by transplant99

As long as you feel the same way about the guy picking up insulin as well as that 20 pack of mini-chocolate bars.

That is pretty damned insulting to diabetics.

You know full well that there are legitimate reasons that diabetics need to carry around sugary snacks.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

So what you are saying is that you make an effort to avoid standing outside of the odd doorway where people might be smoking. Is that really a hassle for you? Would you otherwise be standing there, if not for the smokers?

It is absurdly simple. So is my habit of not standing where I have no interest in being. I find it to be very effective, so we do have that in common.



Why isn't it relevant? If pollution and the health of your lungs is important, shouldn't you be griping about the big polluters? There was a lot more nasty stuff being pumped out into the air you breath since you started reading this than there was cigarette smoke all day.

As I said, it isn't relevant because it isn't affected by smoking. I'll humour you just this once, though. Automobile exhaust is more acceptable than smoking because it has more upside. Using vehicles benefits everyone. Even people who don't drive/catch rides/use transit/etc. have to eat the food that gets trucked into the city and use other, similarly obtained products as well.

This city is far too big to maintain itself without vehicles. The benefits of using cars seem to outweigh the risks in the short term, at least. Whether or not they do is a whole other debate which doesn't belong in this thread.

The government IS also trying to reduce emissions by passing laws and regulations in an effort to shrink our risk. As I said before, I don't care if they make smoking illegal. I just want it severely restricted.

The benefits of cigarettes only apply to the people who are smoking them, who can weigh the benefits/risks for themselves. By smoking them in public, they are making that same choice for everyone else, except everyone else doesn't get the benefit.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

That is pretty damned insulting to diabetics.

You know full well that there are legitimate reasons that diabetics need to carry around sugary snacks.

No offense to said diabetics, but if they're type 2 it is very likely eating too many chocolate bars (or chips, pudding, liters of cola, cupcakes, gumdrops....etc) is why they have their ailment in the first place.

In this day in age, with smoking having been banned everywhere, obesity definitely effects me daily much more the smoking and if smokes were to be banned I would want grease, lard, goo and crisco also banned, fair is fair. When I go to the grocery store and have to wait like 7 extra minutes to check out because some big fat guy in front of me is buying like 14 superking bags of Frito Lay, 30 flats of coke and a vat of icing and then needs like 8 minutes to get it all on the roller because he is so overweight....that is when I say....yep obesity is a serious problem that I cannot avoid. I can make a big turn and avoid groups of smokers, avoid walking through entrances where lot of people are smoking but as hard as I try and I cannot get away from slovenly obese people gumming up everyday life.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

When I go to the grocery store and have to wait like 7 extra minutes to check out because some big fat guy in front of me is buying like 14 superking bags of Frito Lay, 30 flats of coke and a vat of icing and then needs like 8 minutes to get it all on the roller because he is so overweight....that is when I say....yep obesity is a serious problem that I cannot avoid.

Reminds me of this time i was at Superstore not to long ago, there was a extremely obese man(350+ if he weighed a pound) there with his extremely obese wife. Their entire cart was piled with nothing but superstore cola and chips and i seriously mean there was not another item in the cart. Was one of those things where i wanted to ask them if they understood what they were doing to themselves.

I understand some people are legitimately addicted to food, but at the point you're have a hard time squeezing down the cart isle between tills you'd think it might be time to put a little thought into what you're eating even if you cant control how much.

[Cheese]

In 5 years when Cowtown catches up with the ROC this will all be for moot. Smokers will get tired of smoking outside in -30C weather...wont go to Restaurants or Bars and will eventually quit in order to stop being labelled.
Their children, educated on the inherant dangers of smoking will nag their puffing parents endlessly making their excuses seem childish in comparison to that of their pre-teen children.

Smoking kills...and comparing this to other bad habits is just silly.

[ComixZone]

I don't have a problem with smokers, or smoking. I don't do it, never have. I just think everyone who argues against smoking, should also be arguing against McDonalds and that type of thing.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't have a problem with smokers, or smoking. I don't do it, never have. I just think everyone who argues against smoking, should also be arguing against McDonalds and that type of thing.

Because someone eating a big mac directly effects the health of the people around them?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Superfraggle

As I said, it isn't relevant because it isn't affected by smoking. I'll humour you just this once, though. Automobile exhaust is more acceptable than smoking because it has more upside. Using vehicles benefits everyone. Even people who don't drive/catch rides/use transit/etc. have to eat the food that gets trucked into the city and use other, similarly obtained products as well.

This city is far too big to maintain itself without vehicles. The benefits of using cars seem to outweigh the risks in the short term, at least. Whether or not they do is a whole other debate which doesn't belong in this thread.

The government IS also trying to reduce emissions by passing laws and regulations in an effort to shrink our risk. As I said before, I don't care if they make smoking illegal. I just want it severely restricted.

The benefits of cigarettes only apply to the people who are smoking them, who can weigh the benefits/risks for themselves. By smoking them in public, they are making that same choice for everyone else, except everyone else doesn't get the benefit.

Can you humour me by telling me what it is you actually do to avoid cigarette smoke? What steps you have to take. "I avoid it" isn't an answer.

This is what I don't get. People aren't allowed to smoke anywhere, but we have people griping about all the second hand smoke they inhale.

Hell, I don't like second hand smoke either, but you know how I avoid it -- I live in Calgary. I haven't encountered indoor cigarette smoke in at least a couple years. I occasionally get a whiff of it outside a door and I manage to struggle through it.

I guess we'll have to disagree with how relevant automobile exhaust is. I think it is relevant. Some clown driving an Exhibition to the grocery store is making a decision for me too. He's polluting just as needlessly (and more) than any cigarette smoker. He gets a free pass from you while you bitch about the tiny amount of cigarette smoke you might get a sniff of.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cheese

In 5 years when Cowtown catches up with the ROC this will all be for moot. Smokers will get tired of smoking outside in -30C weather...wont go to Restaurants or Bars and will eventually quit in order to stop being labelled.
Their children, educated on the inherant dangers of smoking will nag their puffing parents endlessly making their excuses seem childish in comparison to that of their pre-teen children.

Smoking kills...and comparing this to other bad habits is just silly.

I'm pretty sure the smoking rates and laws in Alberta are comparable to the rest of Canada.

[MJK]

If banning smoking in public places is fairly new to Calgary then they are behind them times. Newfoundland, for example, has been smoke free in bars and restaurants for over 5 years now I think.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MJK

If banning smoking in public places is fairly new to Calgary then they are behind them times.

It isn't fairly new.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Cheese

In 5 years when Cowtown catches up with the ROC this will all be for moot. Smokers will get tired of smoking outside in -30C weather...wont go to Restaurants or Bars and will eventually quit in order to stop being labelled.
Their children, educated on the inherant dangers of smoking will nag their puffing parents endlessly making their excuses seem childish in comparison to that of their pre-teen children.

Smoking kills...and comparing this to other bad habits is just silly.

I agree with your prediction. I bet that within a generation or two, smoking will be a thing of the past, save for maybe cigars here and there. It really is about the stupidest and most useless thing a person can do. It's no longer fashionable, it's no longer tolerated by the bulk of society and it gets evermore expensive. Plus, with all the education around it, it is so blatantly stupid, that people who do it (such as myself) might as well wear a sandwich board that say's 'I'm a Moran' on it.

All that said, I don't understand why some people are trying to squeeze tits so hard. Us dirty smokers already huddle in corners and go outside. There is literally nowhere that smoking is allowed where air lingers. I think alot of you people are being overly dramatic. As if having a faint whiff of smoke is going to kill you. If that's the case, then I think that Rouge is bang on for making comparisons to vehicle exhaust. And then there's camp fires. Hope none of you anti-smoking militants go camping. Smoke is smoke. Unless you're standing there breathing it, or are sitting in a room with still air and someone else is smoking, then it's not a big deal. It's not like friggin radiation. A tiny little whiff from time to time is no reason to act like Dominik Hasek and pretend you were just shot in the chest. Live and let live. We've got the rules. They're stacked pretty far in your favor (and, I admit, rightfully so). So just stop trying to make decisions for other people.